A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Amateur Astronomy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

A curved image sensor



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 13th 17, 03:46 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,076
Default A curved image sensor

https://www.dpreview.com/news/186978...e-image-sensor

  #2  
Old July 13th 17, 04:40 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,018
Default A curved image sensor

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 8:46:51 PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/186978...e-image-sensor


This is exciting, but even when they go into production, this will no doubt only
be affordable by major observatories, not amateur astronomers. Likely we're
talking six figures here.

Of course, perhaps eventually inexpensive manufacturing techniques will be
found, such as SOI where the insulating substrate can be heated enough to make
it malleable without disturbing the delicate microcircuitry on its surface.
Since a sphere is not a reducible surface, though, the interconnects will have
to survive stretching.

John Savard
  #3  
Old July 13th 17, 09:57 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 553
Default A curved image sensor

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 11:41:01 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 8:46:51 PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/186978...e-image-sensor


This is exciting, but even when they go into production, this will no doubt only
be affordable by major observatories, not amateur astronomers. Likely we're
talking six figures here.

Of course, perhaps eventually inexpensive manufacturing techniques will be
found, such as SOI where the insulating substrate can be heated enough to make
it malleable without disturbing the delicate microcircuitry on its surface.
Since a sphere is not a reducible surface, though, the interconnects will have
to survive stretching.

John Savard


Has anyone done any study to see how such a sensor if available to consumer firms would impact lens design?
  #4  
Old July 13th 17, 08:08 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,018
Default A curved image sensor

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 9:41:01 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

Of course, perhaps eventually inexpensive manufacturing techniques will be
found, such as SOI where the insulating substrate can be heated enough to make
it malleable without disturbing the delicate microcircuitry on its surface.


An even more sensible method:

Do SOI, but have the insulator already in a curved shape before starting.

The optics for going from the mask to the substrate, after all, can *also* be
designed to have curvature of field! And then there are no problems with
deformation at all.

John Savard
  #5  
Old July 13th 17, 08:12 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,018
Default A curved image sensor

On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 1:08:08 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 9:41:01 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

Of course, perhaps eventually inexpensive manufacturing techniques will be
found, such as SOI where the insulating substrate can be heated enough to make
it malleable without disturbing the delicate microcircuitry on its surface.


An even more sensible method:

Do SOI, but have the insulator already in a curved shape before starting.

The optics for going from the mask to the substrate, after all, can *also* be
designed to have curvature of field! And then there are no problems with
deformation at all.


Of course, that requires an investment in a very specialized production line.
SONY bent their sensor after the fact, as this article notes -

https://www.engadget.com/2014/07/08/...curved-sensor/

so curved image sensors *are* already in the consumer area!

However, there's a trivial technique which achieves almost the same result:
place a plano-convex lens immediately in front of the flat image sensor. The
extra thickness of glass in the center makes the middle of the sensor seem
farther away, but because it is so close to the image plane, it doesn't do much
to change the magnification and so on.

This is a well-known technique, often used.

John Savard
  #6  
Old July 14th 17, 02:38 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Helpful person
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default A curved image sensor

On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 3:12:30 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 1:08:08 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 9:41:01 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

Of course, perhaps eventually inexpensive manufacturing techniques will be
found, such as SOI where the insulating substrate can be heated enough to make
it malleable without disturbing the delicate microcircuitry on its surface.


An even more sensible method:

Do SOI, but have the insulator already in a curved shape before starting.

The optics for going from the mask to the substrate, after all, can *also* be
designed to have curvature of field! And then there are no problems with
deformation at all.


Of course, that requires an investment in a very specialized production line.
SONY bent their sensor after the fact, as this article notes -

https://www.engadget.com/2014/07/08/...curved-sensor/

so curved image sensors *are* already in the consumer area!

However, there's a trivial technique which achieves almost the same result:
place a plano-convex lens immediately in front of the flat image sensor. The
extra thickness of glass in the center makes the middle of the sensor seem
farther away, but because it is so close to the image plane, it doesn't do much
to change the magnification and so on.

This is a well-known technique, often used.

John Savard


It's not a trivial technique. Using a fiield flattened introduces several problems. It increases the angle of incidence of the principal ray at the image plane. This reduces both MTF and image illumination.

www.richardfisher.com
  #7  
Old July 15th 17, 09:34 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 553
Default A curved image sensor

On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 9:38:43 PM UTC-4, Helpful person wrote:
On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 3:12:30 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 1:08:08 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 9:41:01 PM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

Of course, perhaps eventually inexpensive manufacturing techniques will be
found, such as SOI where the insulating substrate can be heated enough to make
it malleable without disturbing the delicate microcircuitry on its surface.

An even more sensible method:

Do SOI, but have the insulator already in a curved shape before starting.

The optics for going from the mask to the substrate, after all, can *also* be
designed to have curvature of field! And then there are no problems with
deformation at all.


Of course, that requires an investment in a very specialized production line.
SONY bent their sensor after the fact, as this article notes -

https://www.engadget.com/2014/07/08/...curved-sensor/

so curved image sensors *are* already in the consumer area!

However, there's a trivial technique which achieves almost the same result:
place a plano-convex lens immediately in front of the flat image sensor.. The
extra thickness of glass in the center makes the middle of the sensor seem
farther away, but because it is so close to the image plane, it doesn't do much
to change the magnification and so on.

This is a well-known technique, often used.

John Savard


It's not a trivial technique. Using a fiield flattened introduces several problems. It increases the angle of incidence of the principal ray at the image plane. This reduces both MTF and image illumination.

www.richardfisher.com


The whole idea behind improving digital imaging was concentricity of rays, so they avoided hitting the "walls" of the pixels of the sensor. So, you have to deal with micro lenses on the sensors on top of each pixel and how light interacts with them. Obviously, film grains never had this issue.
  #8  
Old July 15th 17, 02:11 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default A curved image sensor

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 01:34:25 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote:

The whole idea behind improving digital imaging was concentricity of rays, so they avoided hitting the "walls" of the pixels of the sensor. So, you have to deal with micro lenses on the sensors on top of each pixel and how light interacts with them. Obviously, film grains never had this issue.


The main reason for microlenses on the top of sensors is to allow a
larger collection area with smaller underlying pixels- necessary
because so many chip architectures require structure on the top
surface that blocks part of the photosensitive area.
  #9  
Old July 15th 17, 02:22 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Helpful person
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default A curved image sensor

Correct. However, micro lens arrays are only good with limited NA/principal ray angles otherwise light spills over from one pixel to the next.

http:www.richardfisher.com
  #10  
Old July 15th 17, 03:13 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default A curved image sensor

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 06:22:48 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
wrote:

Correct. However, micro lens arrays are only good with limited NA/principal ray angles otherwise light spills over from one pixel to the next.


And it's common for the lens arrays on sensors to add artifacts. It's
not usually a problem for ordinary photography, but it can be a
significant problem with astronomical imaging, even with the typically
smaller principal ray angles from most telescopes compared with most
camera lenses.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
curved spacetime fdslkfjd Astronomy Misc 1 March 5th 10 11:02 PM
The Curved Universe Zanthius Misc 0 February 20th 08 01:41 AM
looking for cameras using the texas instruments TC211 image sensor [email protected] Astronomy Misc 5 April 16th 07 03:23 PM
looking for cameras using the texas instruments TC211 image sensor [email protected] Amateur Astronomy 5 April 16th 07 03:23 PM
looking for cameras using the texas instruments TC211 image sensor [email protected] CCD Imaging 5 April 16th 07 03:23 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.