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Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 18th 07, 04:42 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.messianic,alt.talk.creationism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
Sound of Trumpet
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Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists

http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/i...2&art_id=31576


We're Hardly Alone in the Universe


7/5/2006


by Mark P. Shea

Bible Study and Truth Tracts Author





One thing I have discovered (to my surprise) is how shocked some folks
get when I express my opinion that we humans are never getting off the
earth in any serious way.


We're Staying Right Here on Earth

Oh sure, we might get a couple of people to Mars to walk around. Maybe
a long-term space station with more than a handful of astronauts in
near-Earth orbit. Maaaaaaaybe a moon station. But we're never, I think,
going to colonize the planets. And we're most emphatically never going
to go to another star. This earth is pretty much it. We must learn to
face the fact that the frontier period is past and we ain't going
anywhere.

These are not, by the way, religious opinions. They are opinions based,
not on my theological views, but on cold, practical considerations
about things like "what it takes to get there." I'll be willing to
change my opinion when we establish a thriving metropolis in
Antarctica, which is infinitely easier than establishing a serious,
self-supporting colony on Mars or the Moon.

Rare Earth

Similarly, to devotees of SETI and the quest for extraterrestrial life,
I say my mind is strongly persuaded by a book called Rare Earth that
the assumption of a densely populated cosmos is all wet and that
intelligent (or even multicellular) life is a lot rarer than you'd
think from watching Star Trek. In short, I think that we are, for all
practical purposes, all alone. If there's somebody out there, we'll
never know it, because the odds are that intelligent physical life is
so remote from us - if it exists at all - that we can't hear it if
it is broadcasting electromagnetic signals.

Again, I say this not due to my theological views, but because the
science is on my side. As Rare Earth demonstrates, over 20 factors all
have to line up just so in order to even have a shot at intelligent
life arising on a planet. The odds against all those factors working
out with such fine tuning are extremely slight. So the odds of life
existing in most of our galaxy are likewise extremely slight. Indeed,
the vast majority of stars in the Milky Way cannot have inhabitable
planets, since they are concentrated in the center, where stellar
radiation makes the chemical conditions of life impossible.

Secular Eschatology

Why this digression on science? Because while my views are not
theological, what I discover is that the faith in ET and our eventual
trek to the stars is deeply theological with many people. Very typical
of what I mean is the remark made to me by a friend a few years ago:
"As thought experiments go, speculation about extraterrestrials have
been (for me, anyway) a devotional exercise." And not just for him.
Note this weirdly eucharistic anecdote about science fiction writer Kim
Stanley Robinson from the Chicago Tribune:

In the middle of writing Blue Mars, [Robinson] recalled, he took a
small Martian meteorite he had purchased from a dealer and climbed to
the roof of his home. At sunset, he popped the tiny stone into his
mouth and swallowed it, hoping that having a piece of Mars inside him
would enhance his creative process.

Communing with the Real Presence of our Great God and Savior, Mars
Ares. Nope. Nothing religious going on here.

This is why the longer I live, the more persuaded I become that aliens
fill, in a secular age, the imaginative and emotional niche that was
once occupied by angels and demons just as Our Destiny in Space fills
what used to be the Christian hope of our Destiny in Heaven. It is, I
think, a profound illustration of the fact that our hearts are
God-shaped vacuums, sucking in whatever comes to hand in the search for
God or His nearest approximation.

Hope or Despair?

Some will argue that Christians "fear" the notion of contact with ET
because it will definitively remove us from our "privileged" position
as children of God and show that we are but one of many intelligent
species throughout the cosmos. But this simply goes to prove my point
about the way in which angels and demons have receded from popular
imagination and left a void. For the trouble with this criticism is
that the Christian revelation already tells us there are myriad
intelligent beings throughout Creation. That is, after all, what angels
and demons are. So I see no reason that finding ET should trouble us as
Christians. I merely think that there is plenty of scientific - not
theological - reason to think that such biological creatures will
never be found.

Colonization of the stars and contact with ET (sort of) fills the void
left by modernity's abandonment of the true eschatological hope of the
return of Christ. Sooner or later, it will become evident to
secularists that this hope is as chimerical as the Marxist hope of the
Withering Away of the State. I wonder whether that will prompt a return
to Christian hope or simply lead to final despair?





Mark Shea is Senior Content Editor for Catholic Exchange and a weekly
columnist for the National Catholic Register. You may visit his website
at www.mark-shea.com check out his blog, Catholic and Enjoying It!, or
purchase his books and tapes here.

  #2  
Old January 18th 07, 05:09 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.messianic,alt.talk.creationism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
[email protected]
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Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists


Sound of Trumpet wrote:
One thing I have discovered (to my surprise) is how shocked some folks
get when I express my opinion that we humans are never getting off the
earth in any serious way.


We're Staying Right Here on Earth

Oh sure, we might get a couple of people to Mars to walk around. Maybe
a long-term space station with more than a handful of astronauts in
near-Earth orbit. Maaaaaaaybe a moon station. But we're never, I think,
going to colonize the planets. And we're most emphatically never going
to go to another star. This earth is pretty much it. We must learn to
face the fact that the frontier period is past and we ain't going
anywhere.


I suppose as you presumably agree with Intelligent Design you would
consider a Von Neumann machine impossible. That is a necessary (and
largely sufficient) condition that has to be met before space is
colonized.

BTW - Do Evangelical Christians have any definte views on IKEA and
robotic flatpack assembly. - A vital first step.

These are not, by the way, religious opinions. They are opinions based,
not on my theological views, but on cold, practical considerations
about things like "what it takes to get there." I'll be willing to
change my opinion when we establish a thriving metropolis in
Antarctica, which is infinitely easier than establishing a serious,
self-supporting colony on Mars or the Moon.


Thety are based on ID and on the impossibilty of us achieving self
replication. Of couse VN will be intelligently designed - BY US!

Rare Earth

Similarly, to devotees of SETI and the quest for extraterrestrial life,
I say my mind is strongly persuaded by a book called Rare Earth that
the assumption of a densely populated cosmos is all wet and that
intelligent (or even multicellular) life is a lot rarer than you'd
think from watching Star Trek. In short, I think that we are, for all
practical purposes, all alone. If there's somebody out there, we'll
never know it, because the odds are that intelligent physical life is
so remote from us - if it exists at all - that we can't hear it if
it is broadcasting electromagnetic signals.

Again, I say this not due to my theological views, but because the
science is on my side. As Rare Earth demonstrates, over 20 factors all
have to line up just so in order to even have a shot at intelligent
life arising on a planet. The odds against all those factors working
out with such fine tuning are extremely slight. So the odds of life
existing in most of our galaxy are likewise extremely slight. Indeed,
the vast majority of stars in the Milky Way cannot have inhabitable
planets, since they are concentrated in the center, where stellar
radiation makes the chemical conditions of life impossible.

Secular Eschatology


I don't believe it is. Science tells us - my pet subject is AI as you
probably all know, that a UFO visit to Earth is virtually impossible.
Not for any reasons that it is inherently impossible, but because of
the way in which our science and technology is advancing. Not for
reasons that Earth is rare. It may be, but we do not know for sure. My
stock reply to UFO buffs is now "!puerde lectar en espagnol!" This
simply means that AI (their's) is doing the postings - in all
languages.

Is SETI a waste of time? It probably is, but again for different
reasons. If ET REALLY wanted to communicate with us he would find a way
of doing so. If he did not he would make damn sure that powerful
encryption was used and we saw only a noise signal.

Why this digression on science? Because while my views are not
theological, what I discover is that the faith in ET and our eventual
trek to the stars is deeply theological with many people. Very typical
of what I mean is the remark made to me by a friend a few years ago:
"As thought experiments go, speculation about extraterrestrials have
been (for me, anyway) a devotional exercise." And not just for him.
Note this weirdly eucharistic anecdote about science fiction writer Kim
Stanley Robinson from the Chicago Tribune:

In the middle of writing Blue Mars, [Robinson] recalled, he took a
small Martian meteorite he had purchased from a dealer and climbed to
the roof of his home. At sunset, he popped the tiny stone into his
mouth and swallowed it, hoping that having a piece of Mars inside him
would enhance his creative process.

From a religious perspective the absence of life is a rather mixed

result. God has created a Universe of (at least) 80 G Parsecs with life
only on one planet. What a waste! If we colonized, the earth being
4.55e9 years old means that we might have a comperable period ahead of
us. That is if we are not silly. We will certainly send VN probes
throughout the Galaxy.


Some will argue that Christians "fear" the notion of contact with ET
because it will definitively remove us from our "privileged" position
as children of God and show that we are but one of many intelligent
species throughout the cosmos. But this simply goes to prove my point
about the way in which angels and demons have receded from popular
imagination and left a void. For the trouble with this criticism is
that the Christian revelation already tells us there are myriad
intelligent beings throughout Creation. That is, after all, what angels
and demons are. So I see no reason that finding ET should trouble us as
Christians. I merely think that there is plenty of scientific - not
theological - reason to think that such biological creatures will
never be found.

Colonization of the stars and contact with ET (sort of) fills the void
left by modernity's abandonment of the true eschatological hope of the
return of Christ. Sooner or later, it will become evident to
secularists that this hope is as chimerical as the Marxist hope of the
Withering Away of the State. I wonder whether that will prompt a return
to Christian hope or simply lead to final despair?

No, SETI is not done from any secularist stand-point. It is done as a
help to understanding the Universe in which we live.


- Ian Parker

  #3  
Old January 18th 07, 05:57 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.messianic,alt.talk.creationism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
Joe Strout
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Posts: 972
Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists

In article . com,
"Sound of Trumpet" wrote:

by Mark P. Shea

Bible Study and Truth Tracts Author

One thing I have discovered (to my surprise) is how shocked some folks
get when I express my opinion that we humans are never getting off the
earth in any serious way.


That's because it's a baseless, ill-informed opinion. (Note: replying
below as if to the author of this news piece, though I'm sure he doesn't
bother to actually read a space-related newsgroup before forming his
space-related opinions.)

Oh sure, we might get a couple of people to Mars to walk around. Maybe
a long-term space station with more than a handful of astronauts in
near-Earth orbit. Maaaaaaaybe a moon station. But we're never, I think,
going to colonize the planets.


Some people will, though I would agree that colonizing orbits AROUND
planets or the Sun will probably turn out to be far more common.

And we're most emphatically never going to go to another star.


Sure we are, but by degrees. Once we've colonized our Oort cloud, some
of those folks will notice that the next Oort cloud over is just a short
hop away, and look, it has lots of unclaimed resources. There'll be no
stopping them.

These are not, by the way, religious opinions. They are opinions based,
not on my theological views, but on cold, practical considerations
about things like "what it takes to get there."


Ill-informed and baseless considerations, that is.

I'll be willing to
change my opinion when we establish a thriving metropolis in
Antarctica, which is infinitely easier than establishing a serious,
self-supporting colony on Mars or the Moon.


Also infinitely more pointless. There are resources enough to support
10 quadrillion people (at Western standards of living) in the asteroid
belt alone. How many can Antarctica support? In winter as well as
summer? Without disrupting ecosystems that many consider worth
preserving?

Similarly, to devotees of SETI and the quest for extraterrestrial life,
I say my mind is strongly persuaded by a book called Rare Earth that
the assumption of a densely populated cosmos is all wet and that
intelligent (or even multicellular) life is a lot rarer than you'd
think from watching Star Trek.


Well, duh. Even SETI adherents don't think the universe is like Star
Trek. They do neglect colonization, however, and assume that the
nonsensical Drake Equation is a good description of reality -- in fact,
I bet you'd get along with those guys just famously.

In short, I think that we are, for all
practical purposes, all alone.


I think so too, mainly because if there was somebody else out there,
they'd be here by now. The only plausible alternative is that they're
out there, but choosing to keep their presence hidden from us.

If there's somebody out there, we'll
never know it, because the odds are that intelligent physical life is
so remote from us - if it exists at all - that we can't hear it if
it is broadcasting electromagnetic signals.


No, if it exists, it's either here or right outside the nature preserve.
It would know we're here and if it wanted to communicate with us,
there'd be no missing it.

Again, I say this not due to my theological views, but because the
science is on my side.


No, it's not.

As Rare Earth demonstrates, over 20 factors all
have to line up just so in order to even have a shot at intelligent
life arising on a planet. The odds against all those factors working
out with such fine tuning are extremely slight. So the odds of life
existing in most of our galaxy are likewise extremely slight.


The odds per star system are extremely slight, but there are 100 billion
stars in our galaxy. And life only needs to reach the starfaring level
before it will quite quickly (on a geological timescale) spread
throughout the rest of the galaxy.

Why this digression on science? Because while my views are not
theological, what I discover is that the faith in ET and our eventual
trek to the stars is deeply theological with many people.


People find spirituality in many ways. Some study martial arts; others
become music; some people search for ETs; some believe in mythological
beings. To each his own (as long as he doesn't start killing people
over it), I say.

It is, I think, a profound illustration of the fact that our hearts are
God-shaped vacuums, sucking in whatever comes to hand in the search for
God or His nearest approximation.


Psychology is complex (I have a degree in it, BTW). Many people do need
some sort of parental figure in order to help them eschew responsibility
and provide comfort. Again, I say to each his own, though it does cause
a problem sometimes if people take it too seriously.

Some will argue that Christians "fear" the notion of contact with ET
because it will definitively remove us from our "privileged" position
as children of God and show that we are but one of many intelligent
species throughout the cosmos.


Christianity has survived many such upheavals in the past (e.g. Earth ac
center of solar system; solar system at center of universe; and
evolution -- though some groups of Christians, mainly in the U.S., are
still resisting that one). I have no doubt it could survive this news
as well.

Colonization of the stars and contact with ET (sort of) fills the void
left by modernity's abandonment of the true eschatological hope of the
return of Christ.


The difference is that colonization of the stars will actually happen.
Contact with ET, maybe, maybe not. I suspect not, but I'd be happy to
be proven wrong!

Sooner or later, it will become evident to
secularists that this hope is as chimerical as the Marxist hope of the
Withering Away of the State.


No, it won't. You haven't presented a single argument why colonization
of the stars can't happen -- probably because there ARE no such
arguments that stand up to scrutiny.

Best,
- Joe
  #5  
Old January 18th 07, 09:11 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.messianic,alt.talk.creationism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
Gene Ward Smith[_1_]
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Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists


Joe Strout wrote:

No, it won't. You haven't presented a single argument why colonization
of the stars can't happen -- probably because there ARE no such
arguments that stand up to scrutiny.


Because they are a really, really long way away? Becuase they are
really, really hot? Because there's no money in it?

  #6  
Old January 18th 07, 09:13 PM posted to rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
Wayne Throop
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Posts: 1,062
Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists

:: No, it won't. You haven't presented a single argument why
:: colonization of the stars can't happen

: "Gene Ward Smith"
: Becuase they are really, really hot?

That's easy: just go at night. No, wait, that's for the sun.
So, for stars, go during the day.


Wayne Throop http://sheol.org/throopw
  #7  
Old January 18th 07, 09:40 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.messianic,alt.talk.creationism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
Joshua Aaron
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Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists


Sound of Trumpet wrote:
We're Staying Right Here on Earth


More nonsense from sound of a harmonica? Why would he believe an
article such as this would convince anyone who isn't a blind theist?

  #8  
Old January 18th 07, 10:31 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.messianic,alt.talk.creationism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
[email protected]
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Posts: 118
Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists


Joe Strout wrote:
I suppose as you presumably agree with Intelligent Design you would
consider a Von Neumann machine impossible. That is a necessary (and
largely sufficient) condition that has to be met before space is
colonized.


No, Ian, it's not. Space can be colonized just fine without any Von
Neumann machines (and I sincerely hope it would be -- even if such
technology is developed, it should probably be banned, or at least
tightly regulated).

I am talking about MEANINGFUL colonization. Not just a few people
living in expedition conditions. We also ought to look at timescales.
10 years for IKEA. If you have CAD/CAM specification true VN is not far
away.

The question of Intelligent Design is in itself interesting. "Religion
is the opiate of the people" proclaims Marx. Yet Marxism has at its
core a belief in ID. "Only workers can create value". This to me
precudes a VN machine and constitutes an ID statement. If chemicals
came together 3.8 billion years ago and created a closed loop we can
create a closed loop now (in fact all that is required for a closed
loop is CAD/CAM). I would be interested to know how ateism views Marx.
Is he totally repudiated? - As he should be.

The basic igredient for interstellar travel (assuming that warp drive
is impossible - as I personally believe it to be) is a system of phased
lasers propelling a spacecraft with a sail.

One further point about ET. People are taking of memory cubes by 2020.
Perhaps optimistic, but molecular memory the size of a sperm contains
4GB (a DVD). Clearly GENUINE flying saucers could be very small. This
is why antimatter is a perfectly feasible method of braking.


- Ian Parker

  #9  
Old January 18th 07, 10:44 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.messianic,alt.talk.creationism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
Joe Strout
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Posts: 972
Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists

In article .com,
wrote:

No, Ian, it's not. Space can be colonized just fine without any Von
Neumann machines (and I sincerely hope it would be -- even if such
technology is developed, it should probably be banned, or at least
tightly regulated).

I am talking about MEANINGFUL colonization. Not just a few people
living in expedition conditions.


Me too.

We also ought to look at timescales.
10 years for IKEA. If you have CAD/CAM specification true VN is not far
away.


I respectfully disagree. Have you looked at the size of chip factories
lately?

The question of Intelligent Design is in itself interesting. "Religion
is the opiate of the people" proclaims Marx. Yet Marxism has at its
core a belief in ID. "Only workers can create value".


That's a nice non-sequitur. An economic statement has nothing to do
with religious beliefs.

This to me precudes a VN machine and constitutes an ID statement.


You have a very strange outlook, then. Marx was quite right: value
is created by the efforts of workers (including workers who build and
maintain machines, of course). This in no way, shape, or form implies a
belief that the universe was created by an intelligent designer.

I would be interested to know how ateism views Marx.
Is he totally repudiated? - As he should be.


Who or what is ateism?

The basic igredient for interstellar travel (assuming that warp drive
is impossible - as I personally believe it to be) is a system of phased
lasers propelling a spacecraft with a sail.


That's one way, but I hardly think it's the only way. I think fusion
rockets, using hydrogen (plentiful in the Oort cloud) as both fuel and
reaction mass, are more likely, as they're far more flexible. In a few
thousand years we're going to have people zipping around in our own Oort
cloud with such machines anyway; sooner or later somebody will get the
itch to go just a little bit further to Centauri's Oort cloud, and
presto, interstellar colonization has begun. Come back in a few hundred
million years, and humanity (and its descendants) have spread throughout
the galaxy.

One further point about ET. People are taking of memory cubes by 2020.
Perhaps optimistic, but molecular memory the size of a sperm contains
4GB (a DVD). Clearly GENUINE flying saucers could be very small. This
is why antimatter is a perfectly feasible method of braking.


Ah yes, but when you consider that there are over a million different
species of insects, it's obvious that Mike Combs loves pizza.

Best,
- Joe
  #10  
Old January 18th 07, 10:47 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.messianic,alt.talk.creationism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.space.policy
Joe Strout
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Posts: 972
Default Colonization Of The Stars And Contact With Aliens: The Last False Hope Of The Secularists

In article om,
"Gene Ward Smith" wrote:

Joe Strout wrote:

No, it won't. You haven't presented a single argument why colonization
of the stars can't happen -- probably because there ARE no such
arguments that stand up to scrutiny.


Because they are a really, really long way away?


Nope. Our Oort cloud (which we'll be living in by the billions in a few
thousand years) nearly touches the next one over. No big deal.

Becuase they are really, really hot?


Aha, struck down by Literal Man! OK, you're right, we probably
won't colonize the stars themselves, just the space around them.

Because there's no money in it?


Sure there is. The resources of our own solar system outvalue the
resources available on Earth by many orders of magnitude. And of course
the resources of the galaxy outvalue those of our solar system by about
100 billion times. Was there any money in it for European immigrants to
colonial America? Same situation here, only billions of times better.

Best,
- Joe
 




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