Supporting a Mars mission

Is there a way to design a care package delivery system to a crew in transit
to mars?

Lets imagine a crew has just experienced a oxygen generator problem and all
spare parts have the same defect, difficult or impossible to manufacture on
site..

Could we design a small fast one way unmanned supply ship that could
successfully do this job?
Hey this is my opinion

(bob haller) wrote:

Is there a way to design a care package delivery system to a crew in transit
to mars?

No.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

(Derek Lyons) wrote in
:

(bob haller) wrote:

Is there a way to design a care package delivery system to a crew in
transit to mars?

No.

Now it's my turn to nitpick. :-) There certainly is a way to design one
(stick to PowerPoint!), but not to affordably build one. Certainly not one
that could reach the crew in a reasonable amount of time.


--
JRF

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On 01 Apr 2004 04:03:52 GMT, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:

(Derek Lyons) wrote in
:

(bob haller) wrote:

Is there a way to design a care package delivery system to a crew in
transit to mars?

No.

Now it's my turn to nitpick. :-) There certainly is a way to design one
(stick to PowerPoint!), but not to affordably build one. Certainly not one
that could reach the crew in a reasonable amount of time.

Then before we send a crew to Mars, it's obvious that we first need to set
up a network of service stations/rest areas along the route, so they will
pass one every few hours

Dale

Hey I'm channeling hallerb

Dale wrote in
:

Then before we send a crew to Mars, it's obvious that we first need to
set up a network of service stations/rest areas along the route, so
they will pass one every few hours

Dale

Hey I'm channeling hallerb

The ironic thing is that O'Keefe was probably channeling hallerb when he
cancelled HST SM-4, and hallerb still doesn't understand that this is the
shape of things to come if his way of thinking prevails.

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
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In article ,
says...
(Derek Lyons) wrote in
:

(bob haller) wrote:

Is there a way to design a care package delivery system to a crew in
transit to mars?

No.

Now it's my turn to nitpick. :-) There certainly is a way to design one
(stick to PowerPoint!), but not to affordably build one. Certainly not one
that could reach the crew in a reasonable amount of time.

Getting some important, unanticipated replacement part to a Mars-bound
crew would be difficult, yes. But couldn't you string pre-supplied ATVs
of some type into trajectories that could be brought to rendezvous with
a Mars-bound (or even Mars-orbiting) spacecraft? You might launch these
things months or even years before you launch your crew.

Regular resupply of a somewhat smaller manned spacecraft might save some
time & money -- especially if it means you can boost a LOT of mass to
Mars using a bunch of smaller boosters.

Doug

The ironic thing is that O'Keefe was probably channeling hallerb when he
cancelled HST SM-4, and hallerb still doesn't understand that this is the
shape of things to come if his way of thinking prevails.

--
JRF


Ahh its one thing to be cautious, another to be careless.

What we should have is a few hotrod type transport vehicles already in orbit
during any manned mars mission. For easy loading of key supplies

These could be docked to a unmanned base but be easily accessible by a station
crew. The station should be in a easy orbital slot for launching emergency
supplies to mars.

So the three stage hotrod uses a chemical booster to get it initially going,
follows up immediately by a nuclear engine that provides steady thrust.

at some point the vehicle is turned around and the nuclear plant provides
deceleration for the initial orbit matching.

Then the nuclear stage detaches its job done and a final chemical engine is
used for final approach and docking.

In the worst futhest away case they would be at mars. Now regular propopsed
nuclear engine was supposed to cut transit time to what 2 months?? so by
building a rotrod variant perhaps a month 5 weeks? in the worst case?

BTW the design wouldnt be a dead end waste. the basic propulsion plant could be
used for robotic probes all over the solar system.

On a seperate matter
Of course having a extra mars transit vehicle flying in a loose formnation with
the manned one would be a excellent back up too. not too close, but close
enough for fast access if needed.

Look the world is risk adverse today. People put a very high value on human
life. Either we figure out how to do the job right, or we forget the entire
idea.

I will add IF WE HAD A CHEAP LAUNCH SYSTEM everything else would be so much
easier and affordable.

Espiclly designing the transit vehicle. ISS is a examople of how not to do it.
packed solid with stuff to fit the sections in the shuttles cargo bay.

A LARGE spacious easy to service design thats highly redundant is whats needed.
Besides which the extrra space will no doubt be good for the crews mental well
being.



Hey this is my opinion

(bob haller) wrote in
:

What we should have is a few hotrod type transport vehicles already in
orbit during any manned mars mission. For easy loading of key
supplies

These could be docked to a unmanned base but be easily accessible by a
station crew. The station should be in a easy orbital slot for
launching emergency supplies to mars.

So the three stage hotrod uses a chemical booster to get it initially
going, follows up immediately by a nuclear engine that provides steady
thrust.

Then the nuclear stage detaches its job done and a final chemical
engine is used for final approach and docking.

On a seperate matter
Of course having a extra mars transit vehicle flying in a loose
formnation with the manned one would be a excellent back up too. not
too close, but close enough for fast access if needed.

Look the world is risk adverse today. People put a very high value on
human life. Either we figure out how to do the job right, or we forget
the entire idea.

Your version of "doing the job right" will be so expensive, the non-space
geeks will vote to forget the whole idea.

I will add IF WE HAD A CHEAP LAUNCH SYSTEM everything else would be so
much easier and affordable.

Even if launch costs were zero, the system you describe above is so
elaborate and requires so much new technology, that it would make a Mars
mission unaffordable.

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
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Bob,

Check out this simulator, http://www.orbitersim.com

It's a reasonably accurate spaceflight simulator that, if you have a PC with
a decent video card and some time, you can fly a mission to Mars.

Mind you the 'Delta Glider' featured in the sim is pure fantasy (it would
need to be using very efficient nuclear rockets). But you can try a flight
to Mars using a standard Hohmann Transfer.

Now, you set up a scenario, run it through, get to Mars.

Your next task is to intercept the first spacecraft with a second spacecraft
while the first is in flight. It's tricky to set up such a rendevous. It's
also very expensive Fuel/energy/delta-v-wise.

Your second idea, set up a rest stop. Even worse.

Remember, everything is orbiting the Sun. If something doesn't have
velocity, it drops nearly straight down into the Sun. If you put something
in an orbit halfway the distance between Mars and Earth, that's delta-v
expensive, and even if you launched and put it into solar orbit before the
Mars launch it's velocity is _going to be different than the spacecraft you
are sending to Mars_! It might be useful during a specific limited period
of time, but after that, it's just another object in Solar orbit, and one
day a possible hazard in its own right.

So, you launch five, ten, a hundred of these orbital pitstops. Due to
orbital geometery, each is useful for a period of minute/hours/days to a
spacecraft launched on a Hohmann trajectory. The rest of the time they are
exposed to radiation, the effects of vacuum, micrometeorites, etc.

If we had a magic wand and could create a safe, reliable, cheap drive that
could deliver 1G of acceleration constantly during the trip, the trip to
mars would take a few days, and space rescue boat would be possible.

The problem is delta-v. How do you propose to realistically, with current
or near future technology, address this issue.

Jeffrey Cornish

There are a number of scenarios
"bob haller" wrote in message
...
Is there a way to design a care package delivery system to a crew in
transit
to mars?

Lets imagine a crew has just experienced a oxygen generator problem and
all
spare parts have the same defect, difficult or impossible to manufacture
on
site..

Could we design a small fast one way unmanned supply ship that could
successfully do this job?
Hey this is my opinion

(bob haller) wrote in
:

Is there a way to design a care package delivery system to a crew in
transit to mars?

Lets imagine a crew has just experienced a oxygen generator problem
and all spare parts have the same defect, difficult or impossible to
manufacture on site..

Could we design a small fast one way unmanned supply ship that could
successfully do this job?
Hey this is my opinion

Umm, yes.
But the "supply ship" would need to be pre-build & ready to go. It would need to be *several* times bigger than the main mission ship. And it would take months to catch up.

So actually: umm, no.