Atomic ramjet for exploring Titan

In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming air
to provide thrust. It could be capable of flying for months but
emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
nearby.
So, say we want to explore Titan completely from the air, we drop a
Pluto style ramjet into the atmosphere of Titan where it flies around
for months sending back data. At the end of its life, we could simply
allow it to crash OR we could use onboard solid rockets to accelerate
it to escape velocity from Titan and allow it to either go in orbit
about Saturn or to drop into Saturns atmosphere.
Such a flying machine might be just what we need to explore Venus
too. The dense atmosphere would allow for fairly low speed flight
there.

On Mar 17, 1:14*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming air
to provide thrust. *It could be capable of flying for months but
emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
nearby.
So, say we want to explore Titan completely from the air, we drop a
Pluto style ramjet into the atmosphere of Titan where it flies around
for months sending back data. At the end of its life, we could simply
allow it to crash OR we could use onboard solid rockets to accelerate
it to escape velocity from Titan and allow it to either go in orbit
about Saturn or to drop into Saturns atmosphere.
Such a flying machine might be just what we need to explore Venus
too. *The dense atmosphere would allow for fairly low speed flight
there.

Seems a wee bit overkill, especially for the planet Venus.

There's always the Rn222 ion thruster that'll kick serious thrust,
sustained from a cache of radium that's worth 1650 years half life.
Radium should also make helium.

~ BG

Frogwatch wrote:
In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming
air to provide thrust. It could be capable of flying for months but
emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
nearby.
So, say we want to explore Titan completely from the air, we drop a
Pluto style ramjet into the atmosphere of Titan where it flies
around for months sending back data. At the end of its life, we
could simply allow it to crash OR we could use onboard solid rockets
to accelerate it to escape velocity from Titan and allow it to
either go in orbit about Saturn or to drop into Saturns atmosphere.
Such a flying machine might be just what we need to explore Venus
too. The dense atmosphere would allow for fairly low speed flight
there.

Apart from a present lack of humans, why would it be any better for a
nuclear reactor to be spewing radiation into the atmosphere of Titan
or Venus than it would be for Earth?

rick jones
--
Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

On Mar 17, 1:44*pm, Rick Jones wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming
air to provide thrust. *It could be capable of flying for months but
emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
nearby.
So, say we want to explore Titan completely from the air, we drop a
Pluto style ramjet into the atmosphere of Titan where it flies
around for months sending back data. At the end of its life, we
could simply allow it to crash OR we could use onboard solid rockets
to accelerate it to escape velocity from Titan and allow it to
either go in orbit about Saturn or to drop into Saturns atmosphere.
Such a flying machine might be just what we need to explore Venus
too. *The dense atmosphere would allow for fairly low speed flight
there.

Apart from a present lack of humans, why would it be any better for a
nuclear reactor to be spewing radiation into the atmosphere of Titan
or Venus than it would be for Earth?

rick jones
--
Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

It's just another method of getting there quickly and having the
retrothrust energy for putting on the brakes, so that it too doesn't
take forever.

~ BG

"Rick Jones" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:
In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming
air to provide thrust. It could be capable of flying for months but
emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
nearby.
So, say we want to explore Titan completely from the air, we drop a
Pluto style ramjet into the atmosphere of Titan where it flies
around for months sending back data. At the end of its life, we
could simply allow it to crash OR we could use onboard solid rockets
to accelerate it to escape velocity from Titan and allow it to
either go in orbit about Saturn or to drop into Saturns atmosphere.
Such a flying machine might be just what we need to explore Venus
too. The dense atmosphere would allow for fairly low speed flight
there.

Apart from a present lack of humans, why would it be any better for a
nuclear reactor to be spewing radiation into the atmosphere of Titan
or Venus than it would be for Earth?

rick jones
--
Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of
events.
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

================================================== =

I think that's an interesting idea and it sounds doable. However, is a
ramjet really the best vehicle for this? A slower, propellor driven
craft could feature less active and stressed machinery, better for a
long life. And in either case, you'd want to do (in my view) at least
three proof-of-principle machines to test out the engineering: where
would you fly those machines? So there are a couple of problems there
for engineers to work at.

However.

I also think, this isn't what we need to be working at now. The place
to explore space from, is space. Seems to me, these machines for
exploring Titan and comparable places, belong three or four human
generations down the line, after the practical problems of space
settlements and economics are reduced to conventional practice, and
there are a lot of people out there. *Then*, one of the problems for
them to be working at, is this extended planetary exploration. At that
time, it will be a natural extension of what people are thinking and
doing. But at this time, it isn't. Right problem, wrong time.

Now we need to be studying and working at how to get out there. This is
today's great transition, comparable to when our remote ancestors came
up out of the ocean and began to live in dry land. It's what we need to
be doing now, and I think the need is urgent. How do we get those
settlements in space started, when so many short-sighted, Terra-centered
people, just aren't interested? ??

Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2009 Mar 17]

Frogwatch wrote:

In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming air
to provide thrust. It could be capable of flying for months but
emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
nearby.

Roger Ramjet, he's your man ... (extra points for filling this in).

Or did somebody else already beat me to it?

On Mar 17, 7:37 pm, kT wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming air
to provide thrust. It could be capable of flying for months but
emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
nearby.

Roger Ramjet, he's your man ... (extra points for filling this in).

Or did somebody else already beat me to it?

This is Frogwatch replying from daughters computer:

The reason this is great is that it requires no propellant, the
atmosphere is the propellant, the reactor simply heats it. It could
fly indefinitely. It does not "Spew radiation". It radiates but does
not cause the surroundings to become radioactive. So, with no living
things there, nothing gets hurt and nothing gets radioactive (unless
it crashes and then its very localized).

: Frogwatch
: In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
: reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming air
: to provide thrust. It could be capable of flying for months but
: emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
: nearby. So, say we want to explore Titan completely from the air, we
: drop a Pluto style ramjet into the atmosphere of Titan where it flies
: around for months sending back data.

If the goal is to have a long cruise time in the atmosphere, why is a jet
better than a nuclear-electric plant like a submarine, running propellors?
For the jet, it would seem to be more difficult to design it to keep the
neutrons away from the atmosphere, which seems desirable if you want
to research the planet's original state, and no particular advantage
if what you are after is to riiiiiiide low and slow. And since you're
using more nearly off-the-shelf and/or proven tech, you can spend the
extra money you save on the paint job.


Wayne Throop http://sheol.org/throopw

Rick Jones wrote:

:Frogwatch wrote:
: In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
: reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming
: air to provide thrust. It could be capable of flying for months but
: emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
: nearby.
: So, say we want to explore Titan completely from the air, we drop a
: Pluto style ramjet into the atmosphere of Titan where it flies
: around for months sending back data. At the end of its life, we
: could simply allow it to crash OR we could use onboard solid rockets
: to accelerate it to escape velocity from Titan and allow it to
: either go in orbit about Saturn or to drop into Saturns atmosphere.
: Such a flying machine might be just what we need to explore Venus
: too. The dense atmosphere would allow for fairly low speed flight
: there.
:
:Apart from a present lack of humans, why would it be any better for a
:nuclear reactor to be spewing radiation into the atmosphere of Titan
r Venus than it would be for Earth?
:

Because we're not going to be trying to breath the atmosphere of Titan
or Venus.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
In the late 50s and early 60s, the USA had "Project Pluto" a nuclear
reactor powered ramjet whereby a reactor directly heated incoming air
to provide thrust. It could be capable of flying for months but
emitted a lot of radiation, maybe even a lethal dose to anything
nearby.
So, say we want to explore Titan completely from the air, we drop a
Pluto style ramjet into the atmosphere of Titan where it flies around
for months sending back data. At the end of its life, we could simply
allow it to crash OR we could use onboard solid rockets to accelerate
it to escape velocity from Titan and allow it to either go in orbit
about Saturn or to drop into Saturns atmosphere.
Such a flying machine might be just what we need to explore Venus
too. The dense atmosphere would allow for fairly low speed flight
there.

I'm honestly trying to figure out if this is the most absurd idea I've heard
in awhile, or absolutely brilliant.

I suspect a bit of both.


--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.