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First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and Andromeda Galaxy(964AD)



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 17th 20, 02:44 PM posted to alt.astronomy
a425couple
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Posts: 216
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and Andromeda Galaxy(964AD)

go to here to read the rest:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahman_al-Sufi

Al-Sufi made his astronomical observations at a latitude of 32.7° in
Isfahan.[5] He identified the Large Magellanic Cloud, which is visible
from Yemen, though not from Isfahan; it was not seen by Europeans until
Magellan's voyage in the 16th century.[6][7] He also made the earliest
recorded observation of the Andromeda Galaxy in 964 AD; describing it as
a "small cloud".[8] These were the first galaxies other than the Milky
Way to be observed from Earth.
  #2  
Old March 18th 20, 03:03 AM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 6:45:17 AM UTC-7, a425couple wrote:
go to here to read the rest:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahman_al-Sufi

Al-Sufi made his astronomical observations at a latitude of 32.7° in
Isfahan.[5] He identified the Large Magellanic Cloud, which is visible
from Yemen, though not from Isfahan; it was not seen by Europeans until
Magellan's voyage in the 16th century.[6][7] He also made the earliest
recorded observation of the Andromeda Galaxy in 964 AD; describing it as
a "small cloud".[8] These were the first galaxies other than the Milky
Way to be observed from Earth.


Well, there is no way that this fellow saw the LMC from 32.7° (which lives at about −69° 45′ 22″), no matter how good he was!
  #3  
Old March 18th 20, 04:51 AM posted to alt.astronomy
Ned Latham[_2_]
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Posts: 49
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

a425couple wrote:

go to here to read the rest:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahman_al-Sufi

Al-Sufi made his astronomical observations at a latitude of 32.7°
in Isfahan.[5]


If he made any at all. Persian scholarship became little more than
compendium-writing under Islam.

He identified the Large Magellanic Cloud, which is visible from
Yemen, though not from Isfahan; it was not seen by Europeans until
Magellan's voyage in the 16th century.[6][7]


False. Ptolemaic Egypt had observatories at Alexandria and Assuan in
the middle of the 3rd century BCE at the latest, because that's when
Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth, using data
collected from both, along with the known distance between them.

The Large Magellanic Cloud is observable from both and will have been
identified very early in their centuries of service. And that is more
likely than anything else to be Al-Sufi's source. For the Andromeda
Galaxy too.

----snip----
  #4  
Old March 18th 20, 05:31 AM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 8:51:28 PM UTC-7, Ned Latham wrote:

False. Ptolemaic Egypt had observatories at Alexandria and Assuan in
the middle of the 3rd century BCE at the latest, because that's when
Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth, using data
collected from both, along with the known distance between them.

The Large Magellanic Cloud is observable from both and will have been
identified very early in their centuries of service. And that is more
likely than anything else to be Al-Sufi's source. For the Andromeda
Galaxy too.


The Andromeda Galaxy, yes, it can be seen from both Alexandria and Assuan.

The LMC, no, that is not possible. Alexandria is about 32° north latitude and Assuan is about 24° north latitude. The LMC is almost 70° south latitude and is therefore well out of range of Alexandria, and would be about 4° below the horizon from Assuan.

https://earthsky.org/clusters-nebula...gellanic-cloud

"In the Northern Hemisphere, only observers south of about 20 degrees north latitude can ever see it [the LMC] at all. This excludes North America (except southern Mexico), Europe, northern Africa and northern Asia."

Let's see you bull**** your way out of this claim of yours, Ned...
  #5  
Old March 18th 20, 06:56 AM posted to alt.astronomy
Ned Latham[_2_]
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Posts: 49
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

palsing wrote:
Ned Latham wrote:


False.


Actually, true.

Ptolemaic Egypt had observatories at Alexandria and Assuan in
the middle of the 3rd century BCE at the latest, because that's when
Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth, using data
collected from both, along with the known distance between them.

The Large Magellanic Cloud is observable from both and will have been
identified very early in their centuries of service. And that is more
likely than anything else to be Al-Sufi's source. For the Andromeda
Galaxy too.


The Andromeda Galaxy, yes, it can be seen from both Alexandria and
Assuan.

The LMC, no, that is not possible. Alexandria is about 32° north
latitude and Assuan is about 24° north latitude. The LMC is almost
70° south latitude and is therefore well out of range of Alexandria,
and would be about 4° below the horizon from Assuan.


You're right. I inverted the relationship between their latitudes and
Yemen's. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

Doesn't make an Al-Sufi observation of the LMC likely. What troubles
me is, I can't see Yemen as a likely source, and I can't think of an
alternative.

----snip----

Let's see you bull**** your way out of this claim of yours, Ned...


I'll leave that sort of **** to you, nymshifter.
  #6  
Old March 18th 20, 07:22 AM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

On Tuesday, March 17, 2020 at 10:56:26 PM UTC-7, Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:
Ned Latham wrote:


False.


Actually, true.

Ptolemaic Egypt had observatories at Alexandria and Assuan in
the middle of the 3rd century BCE at the latest, because that's when
Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth, using data
collected from both, along with the known distance between them.

The Large Magellanic Cloud is observable from both and will have been
identified very early in their centuries of service. And that is more
likely than anything else to be Al-Sufi's source. For the Andromeda
Galaxy too.


The Andromeda Galaxy, yes, it can be seen from both Alexandria and
Assuan.

The LMC, no, that is not possible. Alexandria is about 32° north
latitude and Assuan is about 24° north latitude. The LMC is almost
70° south latitude and is therefore well out of range of Alexandria,
and would be about 4° below the horizon from Assuan.


You're right. I inverted the relationship between their latitudes and
Yemen's. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

Doesn't make an Al-Sufi observation of the LMC likely. What troubles
me is, I can't see Yemen as a likely source, and I can't think of an
alternative.

----snip----

Let's see you bull**** your way out of this claim of yours, Ned...


I'll leave that sort of **** to you, nymshifter.


Nymshifter? Hardly! Just who else do you think I am?
  #7  
Old March 18th 20, 08:17 AM posted to alt.astronomy
Ned Latham[_2_]
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Posts: 49
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

palsing wrote:
Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:


----snip----

Let's see you bull**** your way out of this claim of yours, Ned...


I'll leave that sort of **** to you, nymshifter.


Nymshifter? Hardly! Just who else do you think I am?


What else but pnalsing, palsing?
  #8  
Old March 18th 20, 06:11 PM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 12:17:36 AM UTC-7, Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:
Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:


----snip----

Let's see you bull**** your way out of this claim of yours, Ned...

I'll leave that sort of **** to you, nymshifter.


Nymshifter? Hardly! Just who else do you think I am?


What else but pnalsing, palsing?


Right. Calling someone a nymshifter implies that they post under a variety of names and email addresses... I don't do that... perhaps you didn't understand the term, but used it anyway...
  #9  
Old March 19th 20, 12:30 AM posted to alt.astronomy
Ned Latham[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

palsing wrote:
Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:
Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:


----snip----

Let's see you bull**** your way out of this claim
of yours, Ned...

I'll leave that sort of **** to you, nymshifter.

Nymshifter? Hardly! Just who else do you think I am?


What else but pnalsing, palsing?


Right. Calling someone a nymshifter implies that they post
under a variety of names and email addresses...


I've now seen two nyms; how many more are there?

I don't do that...


Let's just suppose for a moment that I accept that:

Should I, unjustly accused by you, apologise to you?

perhaps you didn't understand the term, but used it anyway...


Oh, I understand it alright; I also understand that trying to
juggle too many net ids can create exactly the kind up slip-up
you made here...

So I used it anyway.
  #10  
Old March 19th 20, 04:46 AM posted to alt.astronomy
palsing[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,068
Default First identification of Large Magellanic Cloud and AndromedaGalaxy (964AD)

On Wednesday, March 18, 2020 at 4:30:31 PM UTC-7, Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:
Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:
Ned Latham wrote:
palsing wrote:

----snip----

Let's see you bull**** your way out of this claim
of yours, Ned...

I'll leave that sort of **** to you, nymshifter.

Nymshifter? Hardly! Just who else do you think I am?

What else but pnalsing, palsing?


Right. Calling someone a nymshifter implies that they post
under a variety of names and email addresses...


I've now seen two nyms; how many more are there?

I don't do that...


Let's just suppose for a moment that I accept that:

Should I, unjustly accused by you, apologise to you?

perhaps you didn't understand the term, but used it anyway...


Oh, I understand it alright; I also understand that trying to
juggle too many net ids can create exactly the kind up slip-up
you made here...

So I used it anyway.


Ned, your eyes are brown, right? It must be because you are full of ****.

I never sign my posts, so obviously I don't use different names. My net IDs are always exactly the same since I only have one email address. How you came up with 2 different references is your problem, not mine. Both references are essentially correct, I am both of them, but I am unaware as to how they came to be. It doesn't matter to me what you choose believe, so you go for it.
 




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