Saturn's Dark And Mysterious Outer Ring Is Even Bigger Than Expected

Saturn's Dark And Mysterious Outer Ring Is Even Bigger Than Expected
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...-than-expected

Known as the Phoebe ring, it's "more than 200 times as big across as
Saturn itself," Hamilton says. "It's absolutely immense, much bigger
than any other ring that we know of."

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On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:38:39 -0500, Sam Wormley
wrote this crap:

Saturn's Dark And Mysterious Outer Ring Is Even Bigger Than Expected
http://www.npr.org/secerious-outer-r...-than-expected

Known as the Phoebe ring, it's "more than 200 times as big across as
Saturn itself," Hamilton says. "It's absolutely immense, much bigger
than any other ring that we know of."

No doubt the result of global warming.


This signature is now the ultimate
power in the universe

USENET News is a discussion protocol, part of the internet, that
predates the World Wide Web, browsers and graphical interfaces by
at least ten years. I have been a participant in Physics and
Astronomy News groups for twenty years.

There is a fellow who lives somewhere in Scotland, named Gerald
Kelleher, who has the annoying habit of interrupting threads on
various topics of astronomy with his rants that scientists, such
as Isaac Newton, ruined observational astronomy in the 17th
century.

Eventually I engaged, Gerald, trying to understand why he rants
and what might be the basis of his misunderstanding. His trouble
is rooted in the Anglican interpretation of the rotation of the
earth. Gerald regularly expresses his utter contempt and disgust
that we professors and teachers of astronomy note that the earth
rotates once, four minutes shy of 24 hours. The effect can be
observed by anyone, that the stars rise in the east 4 minutes
earlier each night. School kids, using two sticks can sight any
prominent star in the nighttime sky two nights in a row and time
that the star lines up with the two sticks every 23h 56m and 4s.

We notice that the sun appears to travel south in the winter and
back north in the summer. From a fixed perspective one can see
that the sun rises and sets at a different place along the horizon
everyday, changing most rapidly near equinoxes and coming to what
seems like a standstill at the solstices. And yet it moves!

Science is all about observation and experiment. We enhance our
understand of nature all around us, by taking the time to observe
and think, often needing little more than sticks, eyes, feet, and
brains plus a zest for learning and understanding.

On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 3:15:10 PM UTC+1, Sam Wormley wrote:
USENET News is a discussion protocol, part of the internet, that
predates the World Wide Web, browsers and graphical interfaces by
at least ten years. I have been a participant in Physics and
Astronomy News groups for twenty years.

There is a fellow who lives somewhere in Scotland, named Gerald
Kelleher, who has the annoying habit of interrupting threads on
various topics of astronomy with his rants that scientists, such
as Isaac Newton, ruined observational astronomy in the 17th
century.


Ireland my dear Sam and Newton didn't ruin astronomy, the lineaments of all the original insights are still there with new tools to modify and create better perspectives.


Eventually I engaged, Gerald, trying to understand why he rants
and what might be the basis of his misunderstanding. His trouble
is rooted in the Anglican interpretation of the rotation of the
earth. Gerald regularly expresses his utter contempt and disgust
that we professors and teachers of astronomy note that the earth
rotates once, four minutes shy of 24 hours. The effect can be
observed by anyone, that the stars rise in the east 4 minutes
earlier each night. School kids, using two sticks can sight any
prominent star in the nighttime sky two nights in a row and time
that the star lines up with the two sticks every 23h 56m and 4s.


The 'man as old as coal' guy looks like an intellectual superstar compared to the exceptionally poor attempt to bypass the appearance of the Sun followed by the appearance of the stars as the planet turns once each 24 hour day.

The primary observation is defining the Earth's orbital position in space using full rotations and long before there were clocks and the 24 hour day, the ancient astronomers realized that within 4 annual circuits the planet turns 1461 times and what eventually turns into 365 1/4 rotations per circuit in dynamical terms.

The phantom rotation which is asserted by academics in of terms 366 1/4 rotations per orbital circuit is an attempt to ignore the purpose of the leap day correction which formats the parent observation into full rotations of 3 cycles of 365 rotations and 1 cycle of 366 rotations. This is a close approximation.




We notice that the sun appears to travel south in the winter and
back north in the summer. From a fixed perspective one can see
that the sun rises and sets at a different place along the horizon
everyday, changing most rapidly near equinoxes and coming to what
seems like a standstill at the solstices. And yet it moves!


This is turning Galileo's saying on its head and that is what it makes it so,so dismaying. The Earth moves and to be more specific - it has dual surface rotations wrt the central Sun corresponding to both the daily daylight/darkness cycle and separately the polar daylight/darkness cycle. In combination they create the seasons and variations in the natural noon cycle.


Science is all about observation and experiment. We enhance our
understand of nature all around us, by taking the time to observe
and think, often needing little more than sticks, eyes, feet, and
brains plus a zest for learning and understanding.


Our race is in deep,deep trouble if the situation is allowed to continue where a late 17th century 'solar vs sidereal' fiction is left to fester. It is for this reason alone that your community is going berserk with planetary temperatures in the need to be 'right' for the purpose of groundless assertions.

I am hopeful that even at the brink of this intellectual oblivion that there are enough people out there with a love of life and humanity to come to their senses and enjoy a sunrise and sunset within each 24 hours for what it actually is - a single rotation of the Earth.

This and this alone is the most pressing issue facing our race.

On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 3:15:10 PM UTC+1, Sam Wormley wrote:

Science is all about observation and experiment. We enhance our
understand of nature all around us, by taking the time to observe
and think, often needing little more than sticks, eyes, feet, and
brains plus a zest for learning and understanding.

Astronomy is basically common sense so when an idea as bad as a mismatch between 24 hour days and the number of rotations within 4 orbital circuits emerges then it becomes an assault by experimentalists who neither know nor care about the tradition of astronomy.

I visited Newgrange again today and these people who lived 3200 years BC could determine when the Solstice occurs with the December alignment as fixed today as it was 5200 years ago.

The idea is not to address those who feel no shame but rather those who can feel the intimacy between our existence and the motions of the Earth which make life possible. I would facilitate anything that would provide the easy to understand narrative that defines the Earth's position in space using the number of times it turns fully.It literally takes nothing to go through the technical trajectory which builds on the extra rotation closing out four orbital circuits and then introduce the separate principles governing the 24 hour system and the Lat/Long system within that framework.

On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 3:15:10 PM UTC+1, Sam Wormley wrote:


Eventually I engaged, Gerald, trying to understand why he rants
and what might be the basis of his misunderstanding. His trouble
is rooted in the Anglican interpretation of the rotation of the
earth. Gerald regularly expresses his utter contempt and disgust
that we professors and teachers of astronomy note that the earth
rotates once, four minutes shy of 24 hours. The effect can be
observed by anyone, that the stars rise in the east 4 minutes
earlier each night. School kids, using two sticks can sight any
prominent star in the nighttime sky two nights in a row and time
that the star lines up with the two sticks every 23h 56m and 4s.


There is no bravery or sense of dignity in any of this - under normal circumstances it wouldn't take any more than a day to figure out how the entire system of timekeeping merges with the Earth's daily and annual motions to a close proximity yet,in two decades, there hasn't been the slightest sign that people recognize that each day keeps in step with each rotation and ended on to the completion of 4 annual circuits as 365 1/4 rotations per circuit.

Sam was taught a generational error and is insistent in infecting the next generation.

On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 6:01:53 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

Astronomy is basically common sense so when an idea as bad as a mismatch between 24 hour days and the number of rotations within 4 orbital circuits emerges then it becomes an assault by experimentalists who neither know nor care about the tradition of astronomy.

So, gkell, how long, to the nearest minute, does it take a star, let's say Alkaid, to complete one circumpolar circle?

What causes Alkaid to circle the pole in this way?

[for the audience: oriel36 knows very well the answers to these questions, but he is psychologically incapable of typing them out.]

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 12:20:36 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 6:01:53 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

Astronomy is basically common sense so when an idea as bad as a mismatch between 24 hour days and the number of rotations within 4 orbital circuits emerges then it becomes an assault by experimentalists who neither know nor care about the tradition of astronomy.

So, gkell, how long, to the nearest minute, does it take a star, let's say Alkaid, to complete one circumpolar circle?

What causes Alkaid to circle the pole in this way?

[for the audience: oriel36 knows very well the answers to these questions, but he is psychologically incapable of typing them out.]

You do not have the intelligence to grasp the fundamental fact that the appearance of the Sun followed by the appearance of the stars within each 24 hours is a result of a single rotation and extending this out to a proportion between rotations and annual circuits amounts of 365 1/4 rotations per circuit.

It is a full blown disease to assume the Earth is into the next full rotation after 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds with an accumulative 3 minute 56 second difference to 24 hours resulting in one more rotation than there are 24 hour days.

It is utter stupidity to assume that stellar circumpolar motion affirms constant rotation as the facts only support the original references which convey the inviolate proportion which is commonly known through February 29th where the average 24 hour day within that 365/366 day framework is the basis for determining the accuracy of a watch using the circumpolar return of a star each 24 hours.

The key to it all is the annual apparent motion of the stars behind the Sun in sequence due to the orbital motion of the Earth with no circumpolar component whatsoever. It is a basic line-of-sight observation through which the Earth's orbital position in space is defined using full and only full rotations as a gauge -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ


I reiterate - the guy who thinks he sees a human skull in a coal vein is the only comparable analogy to the unfortunates who try to assign proof of the Earth's rotation using stellar circumpolar motion,the average 24 hour day and a watch.

The person who appeals to the 24 hour system and the Lat/Long system in sync will never go wrong as the average 24 hour day substitutes for constant rotation within the calendar framework. I have facilitates as much as humanly possible the actual system where timekeeping and the daily/annual motions of the Earth merge to a close approximation and I am still met with itinerant guys who are offended by the observation that each 24 hour day keeps in step with each rotation.

On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 16:14:12 UTC, oriel36 wrote:

On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 3:15:10 PM UTC+1, Sam Wormley wrote:
There is a fellow who lives somewhere in Scotland, named Gerald Kelleher

Ireland my dear Sam

Figures.

On Sunday, 14 June 2015 23:51:28 UTC+2, Linus Das wrote:
On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 16:14:12 UTC, oriel36 wrote:

On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 3:15:10 PM UTC+1, Sam Wormley wrote:
There is a fellow who lives somewhere in Scotland, named Gerald Kelleher

Ireland my dear Sam

Figures.

If only the educationally-challenged dolt could actually manage his figures we might be spared further torture by a thousand [dropped] idgits! ;ø]

His claimed Church truly has a lot to answer for. I hear the elected head of the paedophiles is calling for more rapid progress on climate change. If climate change agreement makes as rapid progress as the church's prosecution of its institutionalised child molesters, slave drivers and tortures we will have a [very, very, very, very] long wait! But hey, Rome wasn't built in a day, its corruption to perfect. Pass the port-folio. Hic!