Descent Thoughts (was - something and nothing)

I'm not sure what you mean by a solar dynamo.

If you mean "could energy be extracted from a mass oscillating in a none
uniform G-field" then no. The reason is that energy is conserved in the mass
only if it is in ballistic motion. As soon as you start to extract energy
then the magnitude of the oscillations will decrease.

However, if you are asking if the gravitational potential energy can be
released as kinetic energy by allowing the mass to "fall" then the answer is
yes. This is how hydroelectric power generation schemes work. The
gravitational potential energy of water at a higher level is converted to
kinetic energy as it falls. This kinetic energy is then partially converted
to electrical energy. The high level water behind the dam has to be
replenished by rivers and ultimately by rainwater. Rain is part of the
planets response to solar flux.

The complete cycle is:

Water from dam falls, releasing kinetic energy.
The water finds its way to the sea.
Evaporation from the solar heated sea ends up as clouds, then rain.
Rain feeds the rivers which replenish the water in the dam.

So, your solar dynamo is already in operation in many parts of the world.

Sally

"Painius" wrote in message
...

So... gravitational force from all points on the surface could help
to keep in motion, say, a solar dynamo? or even a dynamo within
a planet such as, say, Earth?

Hi Sally and Panius. You two will have to answer this question. Is
falling through the earth put you in a complete isolated system (I think
not) Your thoughts are coming from a complete isolated system(yes) If so
you are going with the "law of an "isolated system",and that law is
called the conservation of momentum. This tells us that something that
is "conserved" is protected,guarded,or kept safe from loss.(yes) Now
it is in physic's books that momentum is conserved,and cannot state with
certainty that it will always be conserved.. It falls under uncertainty.
Well Sally and Panius I'm going the elevator will be stuck between
floors.. Bert

Bert,

You have a point. The elevator is interacting with the planet via the
gravitational field. So we must regard the mass and planet as part of the
same system. As the elevator oscillates, so will the planet move by a tiny
amount to preserve the total momentum of the planet/mass system. By the same
token, any planet or star that has masses in orbit will move slightly, this
is one way in which we detect planets orbiting remote stars. It is also the
reason that we have *two* high tides approximately every 23 (?) hours. Ask
Moby, I'm sure he will agree.

Energy is always conserved in the scenarios we are talking about. (When we
start getting relativistic then a different game is played.) However
momentum is something different..it is a measure of "how much stopping"
something takes and is defined as the product of mass and velocity. Momentum
is conserved in an isolated system. This is how rocket engines work, the
(mass x velocity) of the escaping fuel is equal to the (mass x velocity) of
the spacecraft. Since velocity is a vector quantity the spacecraft will move
in the opposite direction to the exhaust gases to conserve the total
momentum of the (rocket plus exhaust gases) system.

Snooker players are experts in understanding conservation of momentum.

And so are those people who analyse the tracks of nuclear particles at CERN.

Hope your elevator gets fixed soon. If the cable breaks you might ponder
whether you are in a gravitational field or not while you are in free fall.

Sally

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...
Hi Sally and Panius. You two will have to answer this question. Is
falling through the earth put you in a complete isolated system (I think
not) Your thoughts are coming from a complete isolated system(yes) If so
you are going with the "law of an "isolated system",and that law is
called the conservation of momentum. This tells us that something that
is "conserved" is protected,guarded,or kept safe from loss.(yes) Now
it is in physic's books that momentum is conserved,and cannot state with
certainty that it will always be conserved.. It falls under uncertainty.
Well Sally and Panius I'm going the elevator will be stuck between
floors.. Bert

Hi Sally glad I made some sense even if I had to bring in atoms. Was
not Neptune predicted by the erotic orbiting of Uranius,and their not
all that close. Hard to find isolated stuff. Lets compromise(ok) Lets
go with each oscellation 6 inches shorter than the last, till it stops
at the earth center. When I say stop I really mean little movement.
Bert

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

Hi Sally and Panius. You two will have to answer this question. Is
falling through the earth put you in a complete isolated system (I think
not) Your thoughts are coming from a complete isolated system(yes) If so
you are going with the "law of an "isolated system",and that law is
called the conservation of momentum. This tells us that something that
is "conserved" is protected,guarded,or kept safe from loss.(yes) Now
it is in physic's books that momentum is conserved,and cannot state with
certainty that it will always be conserved.. It falls under uncertainty.
Well Sally and Panius I'm going the elevator will be stuck between
floors.. Bert

Sally has covered the momentum question pretty well; allow me to add
that I didn't mean to imply that momentum won't be conserved -- just
that since the motion of the earth in response to the motion of the
elevator will be so tiny that it wouldn't be practical to measure and
account for it in analyzing the latter. OTOH if we assume
frictionlessness, conservation of energy tells us everything we need.

--Odysseus

Hi Odysseus Just don't want you and Sally stuck between floors in an
elevator. I say it will finally come to rest at the center of the
earth,and you say it will stop and go,and stop and go forever. Seems the
elevator would have a greater force of gravity on its sides than top to
bottom? That is another reason for it slowing down,and slowing down is
what we are really discussing. I say it will . Bert

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...
Hi Sally glad I made some sense even if I had to bring in atoms. Was
not Neptune predicted by the erotic orbiting of Uranius,and their not
all that close.
snip

Now THAT sounds like a personal question.

BV
Sorry...couldn't resist.

Ha! It just hit me. Eratic. No wonder the big newspapers sweat when
they run a big SHIRT sale. One itsy-bitsy typo . . .

Winfield
(wasn't Bert also saying something about 6- inches!) ;P

BenignVanilla wrote:
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...

Hi Sally glad I made some sense even if I had to bring in atoms. Was
not Neptune predicted by the erotic orbiting of Uranius,and their not
all that close.

snip

Now THAT sounds like a personal question.

BV
Sorry...couldn't resist.

My father once mis-spelt the name Klaus Fuchs (one of the "atom spies"
of the 40s) in an article. I don't recall if anyone caught it!

In message dGIJa.68123$Dr3.56576@fed1read02, WinField
writes
Ha! It just hit me. Eratic. No wonder the big newspapers sweat when
they run a big SHIRT sale. One itsy-bitsy typo . . .

Winfield
(wasn't Bert also saying something about 6- inches!) ;P

BenignVanilla wrote:
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message
...

Hi Sally glad I made some sense even if I had to bring in atoms. Was
not Neptune predicted by the erotic orbiting of Uranius,and their not
all that close.
snip
Now THAT sounds like a personal question.
BV
Sorry...couldn't resist.



--
Greetings from Airstrip One!

Mail to jsilverlight AT merseia.fsnet.co.uk is welcome.
Or visit Jonathan's Space Place http:\\www.merseia.fsnet.co.uk

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

Hi Odysseus Just don't want you and Sally stuck between floors in an
elevator. I say it will finally come to rest at the center of the
earth,and you say it will stop and go,and stop and go forever. Seems the
elevator would have a greater force of gravity on its sides than top to
bottom? That is another reason for it slowing down,and slowing down is
what we are really discussing. I say it will . Bert

You're the only one talking about "stopping and starting".

As for "a greater force of gravity on its sides" I can't imagine what
you mean. The radial components (WRT the 'axis' of the tunnel) of the
gravitational forces will cancel each other out; only their axial
components need be considered.

But if we let reality intrude into this discussion far enough to
admit the effects of friction the elevator will certainly make
smaller and smaller 'orbits' and eventually stop, in a pattern one
might call a 'damped oscillation'; neither Sally nor I have claimed otherwise.

--Odysseus