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Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 27th 12, 08:29 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Robert Clark
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Posts: 1,150
Default Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony

On Nov 28, 9:10*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
...
What they're working on now (mostly) is the flight control software
needed to land a Falcon 9 first stage on a single engine. *Doing this
sort of basic development work using a test vehicle likeGrasshopper
makes a lot of sense.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer


Experimental Private Rocket Makes Highest Test Hop Yet.
by Miriam Kramer, SPACE.com Staff WriterDate: 26 December 2012 Time:
11:04 AM ET
"In the latest test at SpaceX's proving grounds in MacGregor, Texas,
the Grasshopper rocket flew for 29 seconds and reached a height of
more than 130 feet (40 meters). A video of the Grasshopper test flight
shows the rocket soaring up into the Texas sky, then smoothly
descending to land on four spindly legs."
http://www.space.com/19039-spacex-pr...cket-test.html

With reduced weight of the Merlin 1D engine while at increased
efficiency, the Falcon 9 v1.1 first stage will have SSTO capability.
Then ironically Elon is emulating the original purpose of the DC-X
program in testing the Grasshopper VTVL stage without realizing it.

Bob Clark




* Bob Clark
  #2  
Old December 27th 12, 03:01 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Posts: 1,388
Default Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony

In article 5fd94a70-016f-4dd1-a384-
,
says...

Experimental Private Rocket Makes Highest Test Hop Yet.
by Miriam Kramer, SPACE.com Staff WriterDate: 26 December 2012 Time:
11:04 AM ET
"In the latest test at SpaceX's proving grounds in MacGregor, Texas,
the Grasshopper rocket flew for 29 seconds and reached a height of
more than 130 feet (40 meters). A video of the Grasshopper test flight
shows the rocket soaring up into the Texas sky, then smoothly
descending to land on four spindly legs."
http://www.space.com/19039-spacex-pr...cket-test.html

Videos of the latest test flight are quite impressive. It's amazing
what progress can be made when you're not throwing away the entire
vehicle after each and every flight.

With reduced weight of the Merlin 1D engine while at increased
efficiency, the Falcon 9 v1.1 first stage will have SSTO capability.
Then ironically Elon is emulating the original purpose of the DC-X
program in testing the Grasshopper VTVL stage without realizing it.


I somehow doubt the Falcon 9 first stage would be SSTO capable *with*
the hardware needed for landing. But then, that's why it will no doubt
continue to fly with a second stage.

After the X-33 debacle, I've always thought that fully reusable VTVL
TSTO was a reasonable, incremental approach to the problem. Making the
Falcon 9 first stage reusable is going to be *a lot* easier, and
cheaper, than the second stage, so doing it first makes a lot of sense.
It's also going to save quite a bit of money, even if the second stage
is expendable (with nine out of ten engines on the first stage).

If all three core stages of Falcon Heavy can be made reusable, then the
costs for the heavy will drop considerably as well. Making the upper
stages reusable can come later with development funded by the cost
savings achieved by the reusable first stage(s).

Also, one should not underestimate the improvement to reliability which
comes with reusing hardware. Eliminating the "infant mortality" problem
inherent in expendables is going to be a good thing. Recovering
hardware intact, even if it's not initially reused very many times, will
be a big help when it comes to increasing reliability. Having actual
flown hardware to examine dramatically increases the ability of
engineers to find faults and weaknesses *before* they cause a flight to
fail to reach orbit.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #3  
Old December 27th 12, 03:44 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 790
Default Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...


Also, one should not underestimate the improvement to reliability which
comes with reusing hardware. Eliminating the "infant mortality" problem
inherent in expendables is going to be a good thing. Recovering
hardware intact, even if it's not initially reused very many times, will
be a big help when it comes to increasing reliability. Having actual
flown hardware to examine dramatically increases the ability of
engineers to find faults and weaknesses *before* they cause a flight to
fail to reach orbit.


Forget "also" I think right now, this is one of the primary benefits,
especially of the first stage.

It's one of the saddest parts of Challenger was that thanks to the ability
to recover the SRBs that NASA knew there was a problem (and did little in
time) as opposed to having quite likely not known at all.



Jeff


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #4  
Old December 27th 12, 06:26 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Jeff Findley[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,388
Default Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony

In article ,
says...

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...


Also, one should not underestimate the improvement to reliability which
comes with reusing hardware. Eliminating the "infant mortality" problem
inherent in expendables is going to be a good thing. Recovering
hardware intact, even if it's not initially reused very many times, will
be a big help when it comes to increasing reliability. Having actual
flown hardware to examine dramatically increases the ability of
engineers to find faults and weaknesses *before* they cause a flight to
fail to reach orbit.


Forget "also" I think right now, this is one of the primary benefits,
especially of the first stage.

It's one of the saddest parts of Challenger was that thanks to the ability
to recover the SRBs that NASA knew there was a problem (and did little in
time) as opposed to having quite likely not known at all.


True. The orbiter thermal protection damage problem was also well
documented.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #5  
Old December 27th 12, 11:46 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Bob Haller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,197
Default Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony


It's one of the saddest parts of Challenger was that thanks to the ability
to recover the SRBs that NASA knew there was a problem (and did little in
time) as opposed to having quite likely not known at all.


True. *The orbiter thermal protection damage problem was also well
documented.

Jeff



Just like returning shutles with severe burned thru wings from foam
loss
  #6  
Old February 15th 13, 05:58 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Robert Clark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,150
Default Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony

On Dec 27 2012, 2:29*am, Robert Clark wrote:
On Nov 28, 9:10*am, Jeff Findley wrote:

...
What they're working on now (mostly) is the flight control software
needed to land a Falcon 9 first stage on a single engine. *Doing this
sort of basic development work using a test vehicle likeGrasshopper
makes a lot of sense.


Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer


Experimental Private Rocket Makes Highest Test Hop Yet.
by Miriam Kramer, SPACE.com Staff WriterDate: 26 December 2012 Time:
11:04 AM ET
"In the latest test at SpaceX's proving grounds in MacGregor, Texas,
the Grasshopper rocket flew for 29 seconds and reached a height of
more than 130 feet (40 meters). A video of the Grasshopper test flight
shows the rocket soaring up into the Texas sky, then smoothly
descending to land on four spindly legs."http://www.space.com/19039-spacex-private-reusable-rocket-test.html

With reduced weight of the Merlin 1D engine while at increased
efficiency, the Falcon 9 v1.1 first stage will have SSTO capability.
Then ironically Elon is emulating the original purpose of the DC-X
program in testing the Grasshopper VTVL stage without realizing it.



Nice article he

New Mexico space museum volunteers restoring DC-X for exhibit.
by TopSpacer on February 13, 2013 at 3:01 am
http://hobbyspace.com/Blog/?p=591#comment-7550

Bob Clark

  #7  
Old February 15th 13, 06:36 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Jeff Findley[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,388
Default Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony

In article b8aaf82e-d334-41f1-8638-105bd69457e2
@i15g2000vbv.googlegroups.com, says...

Nice article he

New Mexico space museum volunteers restoring DC-X for exhibit.
by TopSpacer on February 13, 2013 at 3:01 am
http://hobbyspace.com/Blog/?p=591#comment-7550

I thought DC-X was completely destroyed on its last flight due to one of
its landing legs not deploying (ground processing error which left a
pneumatic line disconnected, or something like that)?

What exactly do they think they're "restoring"?

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #8  
Old February 15th 13, 07:17 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Derek Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,999
Default Elon Musk is working on a Martian colony

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article b8aaf82e-d334-41f1-8638-105bd69457e2
, says...

Nice article he

New Mexico space museum volunteers restoring DC-X for exhibit.
by TopSpacer on February 13, 2013 at 3:01 am
http://hobbyspace.com/Blog/?p=591#comment-7550

I thought DC-X was completely destroyed on its last flight due to one of
its landing legs not deploying (ground processing error which left a
pneumatic line disconnected, or something like that)?

What exactly do they think they're "restoring"?


It was very badly damaged, but not completely destroyed. Notably the
the thrust structure (very hard to 'completely destroy') remains
mostly intact.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
 




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