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Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 8th 04, 07:46 PM
vthokie
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Default Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward?

While the U.S. plans to phase out the shuttle and abandon RLV
development in favor of a return to Apollo-style capsules, it's nice
to see that the Europeans are still pursuing reusable shuttle
concepts!

http://space.com/missionlaunches/pho...ay_040507.html
  #3  
Old May 8th 04, 09:32 PM
Paul F. Dietz
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Default Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward?

vthokie wrote:

While the U.S. plans to phase out the shuttle and abandon RLV
development in favor of a return to Apollo-style capsules, it's nice
to see that the Europeans are still pursuing reusable shuttle
concepts!


What do you have against the europeans?

Paul
  #4  
Old May 9th 04, 05:45 PM
vthokie
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Default Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward?

"Paul F. Dietz" wrote in message ...

What do you have against the europeans?


Huh? Nothing at all. I'm glad to see that someone is proceeding in
the right direction! I just think it's sad that the U.S. has failed
to develop a next generation RLV system, and is now planning to return
to capsules launched on expendable rockets. That hardly seems like
much of a vision for the future.
  #6  
Old May 9th 04, 07:06 PM
George William Herbert
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Default Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward?

vthokie wrote:
[...] I just think it's sad that the U.S. has failed
to develop a next generation RLV system, and is now planning to return
to capsules launched on expendable rockets. That hardly seems like
much of a vision for the future.


The vision for the future should be:
Do the cheapest useful thing you can right now.
Do cheaper things over time, evolving as technical
capabilities and volume of missions / payload / whatever
grows over time.

In assuming that you have to jump forwards a bunch
before you can do anything, you miss a bunch of low
hanging cost reduction fruit. With Shuttle, we did
that and ended up not saving any money at all over
continuing to fly Saturns, in rough terms, with a
lot of fatalities and long standdowns and the
many year gap from the last Apollo to Skylab and
the first Shuttle flights.

The conquest of space is not an excuse for
splurging on inappropriate technical development.
Inappropriate technical development is a drag
on successful exploration and development,
not a bonus to it. Cost and capabilities
and requirements are the figures of merit.
Any "step back" that continues to have
the capabilities to meet mission requirements,
but is cheaper, is better not worse.


-george william herbert


  #8  
Old May 9th 04, 09:00 PM
Rand Simberg
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Default Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward?

On Sun, 09 May 2004 19:45:03 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Dave
O'Neill" dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

The US hasn't failed. Only the US government. The US (thankfully,
for now, despite the blindness of many) consists of much more than its
government. The emerging private sector has a great vision for the
future, and one that will quickly sidetrack the pointless European
activities.


Disagree.


With what part do you disagree? That there's more to the US than the
government, or that the private sector has a great vision for the
future, or that it will quickly sidetrack the European activies, or
that the European activities are pointless?

I don't think there's any basis for this kind of statement what so ever.


shrug
  #9  
Old May 9th 04, 09:04 PM
Dave O'Neill
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Default Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward?


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 09 May 2004 19:45:03 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Dave
O'Neill" dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

The US hasn't failed. Only the US government. The US (thankfully,
for now, despite the blindness of many) consists of much more than its
government. The emerging private sector has a great vision for the
future, and one that will quickly sidetrack the pointless European
activities.


Disagree.


With what part do you disagree? That there's more to the US than the
government, or that the private sector has a great vision for the
future,


That part.

or that it will quickly sidetrack the European activies,


And that part.

or
that the European activities are pointless?


No, there I agree. Reinventing a wheel which didn't work properly in the
first place is pointless.

I don't think there's any basis for this kind of statement what so ever.


shrug


  #10  
Old May 9th 04, 09:12 PM
Rand Simberg
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Default Europe moves forward while U.S. moves backward?

On Sun, 09 May 2004 20:04:59 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Dave
O'Neill" dave @ NOSPAM atomicrazor . com made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

With what part do you disagree? That there's more to the US than the
government, or that the private sector has a great vision for the
future,


That part.


What's wrong with the vision of hundreds or thousands of launches per
year, at prices many can afford?

or that it will quickly sidetrack the European activies,


And that part.


We'll see.
 




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