Valeev is by no means the worst offender

On Feb 24, 12:18*pm, wrote:
On Feb 24, 11:06*am, Deirdre Sholto Douglas





wrote:
wrote:

On Feb 24, 8:15*am, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
wrote:
Robert Collins wrote:
Manned space missions to the planets are absolutely vital to the long-
term success of space exploration.

Perhaps, but a lot of people would settle for "unmanned
and returning with samples" in the absence of anything
else.

I know if I were staled to go to Mars I'd want to know that they could
bring back a sack of rocksbefore I planned to go, if you get my drift..

Rocks and soil cores, please. *It costs no more to lift a
pound of soil than it does a pound of rock and soil and/or
sediment can be a sight more informative. *

Core samples are good. The point is that if we can't lift rocks and
core samples off of Mars and return them safely to Earth, then how do
we expect to send humans and return them.

A rock /core sample return mission goes a step toward a manned mission
WRT proof of concept and risk mitigation.

Eric- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mind me asking, are there some extenuating circumstances that
would make you desire to retrieve core samples from places
like Mars when there would be virtually no payback?

(Just curious here)


American

"Who wants to involve themselves in small talk when
the progress of an idea usually varies inversely with
the number of usenet posts made?"

- Variation on Parkinson's Sixth Law

Sure, SOME CAPITALISM is based on pure greed..
But please, PLEASE, don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater"
in assuming that America needs to scourge itself of ever having
the righteous memory of private enterprise fundings that WENT
BACK into some corporation's bottom line (without the greed,
of course).

In order for this country to remain internationally
competitive, GAO concluded that the Federal Government
must be prepared to: (1) complete central basic research
(2) fund a large share of developmental and demonstration
research and (3) plan and commit enough resources for
whatever follow-on facilities and transport services are
needed to enable future private enterprise activities in
space. Unfortunately, GAO concluded that current funding
levels will not permit these necessary actions to be taken.

The answer to the question lies in the usage of the word
"unfortunately". IMO the problem is TALKING about getting
something done about it - too much talk about the problem
eventually becomes more important than the solution to
the problem, which is more massive and cheaper access to
space. The GAO maintained that increased backing from the
Administration and Congress are required to realize the
high expectations for space manufacturing among American
Scientists, but has so far not delivered the right
technology to the public for "consumption".


American

-

"hanson" wrote in message
...
Andorkles is by all means the worst offender.

------- AHAHAHAHAHA... ahahahaha... AHAHAHAHA... -----


"hanson" wrote:
ahahaha... Andorkles, last year, after they revoked your Truck
drivers' license, you cried that your days of honest work were over,
& so you announced with great fan-fa "I, Androcles, am a god"...
und you then proceeded with ungodly élan to rewrite physics
that made you believe to declare, a few days ago, that you are
now "Copernicus incarnate"... ahahaha... All that was funny...

But now your mentation has taken a sharp turn downwards into
pedophilia, with you now constantly advertising big girl's blouses
loud, like a high-strung pimp in a drug infested housing project.

Andro, are your pain medications doing that to you or did you
always have such deprived latent urges?... ahahaha...

It's still funny... but you should worry about that in the best case
you have painted yourself as being a senile dirty old man with no
concept of physics... except for your perverted socio-physics...
Still, thanks for the laughs.... ahahahaha... ahahahanson

Androcles wrote:
"Andorkles", the big girl's blouse merchant and Headmaster at
Hogwarts.physics is now into dictating and correcting foreign
languages after his failed attempts to rewrite physics and so he
wrote:
::A:: Since a child may be 'das Madchen', ... big girl's blouse,
::A:: "debbie" is a black girl behaving like an "Uncle Tom".
[snipped the rest of Androcles' crap to save him embarrassment]

hanson wrote:
Andro, don't let me cramp you style, though. I still think you are
funny even with your latest fetish about "big black girl's blouses"...
AHAHAHAHA... ahahahaha... ahahahahanson

Girl Blouse peddler "Androcles" wrote:
Here's why I want your helmet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJAXJWm8G4A

hanson wrote:
ahahahaha... but Andro, you are not helping your own case.
You citing cartoons, toys and interests in children stories are
classic, geriatric symptoms of encroaching senility. IOW:
you are reverting back into the mental world of toddlers!!...
Talk to all of your doctors about your urges and paradigm shift,
and tell'em that people from around the world have noticed
your drift in behavior patterns.
I wish you health & all the best, my old friend... ahahahahanson

Girl blouse peddler Androcles wrote:
I just want your helmet. The one made with the built-in telepathic
stereo, a steel matrix with certain portions of Fe, Ni, Cr, and free
neutrons floating in a metal lattice causing sodium stinking (Na scent)
HYDROGEN EMBRITTLEMENT ...
I've explained why, I want to keep Bugs Bunny alive. He dies in
that opera/ballet, ya big girl's blouse with the geriatric symptoms of
encroaching senility.

hanson wrote:
Andro, first you delivered your almost instantaneous reply
that should be cause for concern and worry to/about yourself,
because with that, your just completed knee-jerk reaction, you
did announce another geriatric symptom that's creeping up on
you. ... and now .... ahahahaha...

See, there you go again, my friend, you yearning and laying in wait
for the gift of a post from me... only to rattle about your bizarre
toddler
fantasies and your techno-babble of things that you read about
somewhere but you know nothing about.... ahahaha... except you
being consumed and overwhelmed by your pedophilic notions...

And then there are other symptoms you have posted about and
wondered... Remember a few weeks back when you made a big
spiel about a dream you had in which you TASTED food....

Such hallucinatory experiences are symptoms of a TIA, Mini stroke,
perhaps a tumor or onsetting Dementia, or Alzheimer's, etc, or in
your case the result of expressions from altered tissue regions in
you brain that have undergone Schiff condensations from CH3CHO,
Acetaldehyde that was produced by you metabolizing, for too long,
excessive quantities of EtOH (Gin, Vodka or Scotch, etc, etc. and
of course, etc)... It is the misfiring of damaged neurons which give
you the impression/experience of a reality of a imaginary world.

Andro, look it up and then tell your physicians about it. Given
the entire heap of your other symptoms, Andro, do not dismiss
it as one of your many constantly reoccuring types of "Gaekum".
All the best, my friend... Still, thanks for the laughs... ahahahanson


PS:
Check Harry Conover's archive a few months back. He posted
about similar events with his aging friends who underwent similar
experiences like you do now. Read what the outcome was for his
cronies... Horrifying.

Man, this is SO easy to write. No thought required at all, unlike
with some of the students.

I just want your helmet. The one made with the built-in telepathic
stereo, a steel matrix with certain portions of Fe, Ni, Cr, and free
neutrons floating in a metal lattice causing sodium stinking (Na scent)
HYDROGEN EMBRITTLEMENT ...
I've explained why, I want to keep Brunehilde Bunny alive. He/she
dies in that opera/ballet, ya big girl's blouse with the geriatric symptoms
of encroaching senility.

Now do you part and sing along.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJAXJWm8G4A

Fudd, played by hanson: " Brunhilde, your so wovely."
Bugs/Brunhilde, played by Andro: "Yes I know, I can't help it."

See, almost real life. Opera is so much fun.

On Feb 24, 12:26*pm, American wrote:
On Feb 24, 12:18*pm, wrote:





On Feb 24, 11:06*am, Deirdre Sholto Douglas

wrote:
wrote:

On Feb 24, 8:15*am, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
wrote:
Robert Collins wrote:
Manned space missions to the planets are absolutely vital to the long-
term success of space exploration.

Perhaps, but a lot of people would settle for "unmanned
and returning with samples" in the absence of anything
else.

I know if I were staled to go to Mars I'd want to know that they could
bring back a sack of rocksbefore I planned to go, if you get my drift.

Rocks and soil cores, please. *It costs no more to lift a
pound of soil than it does a pound of rock and soil and/or
sediment can be a sight more informative. *

Core samples are good. The point is that if we can't lift rocks and
core samples off of Mars and return them safely to Earth, then how do
we expect to send humans and return them.

A rock /core sample return mission goes a step toward a manned mission
WRT proof of concept and risk mitigation.

Eric- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mind me asking, are there some extenuating circumstances that
would make you desire to retrieve core samples from places
like Mars when there would be virtually no payback?

(Just curious here)


Payback?

You obviously are a very practical man but are no scientist. You MUST
take risks in order to get gain. That aside the sheer aspect of
finding something in the core even if it wasn't water would have
scientific benefit. But if it was water, then the payback would be
being able to have your own water while you were on Mars which could
become the same economically as discovering the next New World as
Columbus often gets creditted for. Not next year or even next decade.
Century? Yes!

You don't think that far ahead, do you? Are you like those GM types
that have a 10-day forecast, to which the Japanese found firghtening?
Look at GM now. We had BETTER learn to think five years ahead if we
plan on being here then! The same goes for 100!

Eric

American wrote:

On Feb 24, 12:18*pm, wrote:
On Feb 24, 11:06*am, Deirdre Sholto Douglas

Rocks and soil cores, please. *It costs no more to lift a
pound of soil than it does a pound of rock and soil and/or
sediment can be a sight more informative. *

Core samples are good. The point is that if we can't lift rocks and
core samples off of Mars and return them safely to Earth, then how do
we expect to send humans and return them.

A rock /core sample return mission goes a step toward a manned mission
WRT proof of concept and risk mitigation.


Mind me asking, are there some extenuating circumstances that
would make you desire to retrieve core samples from places
like Mars when there would be virtually no payback?

I'm on the "Basic" side of the equation, so the only payback
I look for is that of extending our knowledge of Mars. If
you're looking for folding money out of the deal, you'll have
to take it up with the "Applied" guys.

(Just curious here)

So am I. :-)

Deirdre

On Feb 24, 12:33*pm, American wrote:
Sure, SOME CAPITALISM is based on pure greed..

Most.

But please, PLEASE, don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater"

Bush has already done that! He had all lkinds of time to fix all kinds
of things. He sat on his ass.

in assuming that America needs to scourge itself of ever having
the righteous memory of private enterprise fundings that WENT
BACK into some corporation's bottom line (without the greed,
of course).

Capitalism left alone does not work. Bush proved that! Anarchy won't
work either. Neither does facism. Where are our spoils of war? None.
Then why the %@#$&#^ have them!?

In order for this country to remain internationally
competitive, GAO concluded that the Federal Government
must be prepared to: (1) complete central basic research
(2) fund a large share of developmental and demonstration
research and (3) plan and commit enough resources for
whatever follow-on facilities and transport services are
needed to enable future private enterprise activities in
space.

I'd like to see that model work for a new form of energy based upon
Earth that is non polluting.

Unfortunately, GAO concluded that current funding
levels will not permit these necessary actions to be taken.

The answer to the question lies in the usage of the word
"unfortunately". IMO the problem is TALKING about getting
something done about it - too much talk about the problem
eventually becomes more important than the solution to
the problem, which is more massive and cheaper access to
space.

Not just talk, but the all important Powerpoint slides. To many people
think anything can get done with enough Powerpoint slideshows. Hell,
we'll return to the moon with Microsoft Office and the Internet -
alone!

The GAO maintained that increased backing from the
Administration and Congress are required to realize the
high expectations for space manufacturing among American
Scientists, but has so far not delivered the right
technology to the public for "consumption".


Well what did AC Clarke as in his book, "The Promise of Space"? Why
not start there? D

Eric

On Feb 24, 12:53*pm, wrote:

: Payback?

You betcha

: You obviously are a very practical man but are no
: scientist. You MUST take risks in order to get gain.

Agreed, however, that would depend on how many
scientists are involved with the project. (I'm
guessing that there are, perhaps a few hundred
thousand educated people out there with the in-
telligence to pursue a project of this magnitude.

Of course, that would also mean that these people
have the ability to organize into intelligent
groups under varied disciplines.

: That aside the sheer aspect of finding something
: in the core even if it wasn't water would have
: scientific benefit. But if it was water, then the
: payback would be being able to have your own water
: while you were on Mars which could become the same
: economically as discovering the next New World as
: Columbus often gets creditted for. Not next year
: or even next decade. Century? Yes!

Mars is too deep a gravity well for exploration.
You can accomplish much more without having to
contend with powerlaunches by investigating the
delta-V's of various asteroids - in proximity to
water-bearing moons (like Enceladus or Europa).

A voyage to Mars, although a romanticist's dream,
doesn't do much in the realm of space-based
utilitarianism. The environment won't support
life for extended periods without constant life-
support. Sure, once a base has become established,
all kinds of studies can be made while in planetary
isolation, but what does this really accomplish?

O'neill colonies achieve the same thing without
getting caught in the gravity wells of planets,
and also permit more earthly orbital type infra-
structures to become established for some actual
space industry for a space-faring civilization
to propogate throughout the solar system.

: You don't think that far ahead, do you? Are you
: like those GM types that have a 10-day forecast,
: to which the Japanese found firghtening?

You making fun of GM? Take a look at how the Arabs
control the oil, and you'll get an idea of how the
auto industry must follow suit. We're sick and
tired of high oil prices, but the rest of the
world wants to sanction the U.S. as a trading
partner, because most of this propoganda being
spewed by the ignorant don't know that there is
actually an infinite supply - they think in terms
their cups being half full, when they're actually
half emptied by greedy Arabs and greedy bureaucrats.

: Look at GM now. We had BETTER learn to think
: five years ahead if we plan on being here then!
: The same goes for 100!

The economy of orbital and transorbital technologies of
an asteroid mining technology venture would depend upon
a massive political and cultural drive in order to gen-
erate the market incentive for propogating the technology
in order to establish an eternally accessible, earth-to-
orbit market - competing directly with the earth-based
mining infrastructure, specifically legislated by an
independent authority to decrease the monopolies that
have become entrenched by the interlocking corporate
directorships of the New World Order.

Doesn't anyone recognize that the NWO is an *evil* entity?
(Based upon the current economic climate, I'll bet NO)

: Eric


American

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
:
:"Fred J. McCall" wrote:
:
: Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
:
: :Really? Whose identity might that be?
:
: I think Ian is trying to claim you're not you, presumably because
: (like most professionals) you don't post through your work email
: address (neither do I - I pay the freight for this myself).
:
:I'm not who I say I am because I'm not stealing time or re-
:sources from my employer to "spar" (term used advisedly)
:with him? Yeesh.
:
:Ah, well, Fred...you have to admit, if I'm going to steal an
:identity, I picked a good one...all the clothes fit me, I've the
:keys to the car and front door and I even like the look of
:her husband. :-)
:

And the dogs are cute, too.

Except you're not supposed to have a husband, since you're apparently
supposed to be my girlfriend. Except you're not a girl....

: I don't think Ian knows the difference between a biochemist (who is a
: chemist) and a chemical biologist (who is a biologist).
:
: Of course, I don't believe that Ian knows the difference between ****
: and Shinola, either.
:
:I'm certain he knows what the former is, he generates
lenty of it...as for the latter, is it still even being made?
:

I guess not, but Ian is certainly making lots of ****.

: I alternate between Ian being a gibberbot and Ian being a mentally
: defective Arab immigrant to London.
:
: Perhaps he's both - a mentally deficient Arab gibberbot.
:
:That was very unkind, Fred...there's no reason to traduce
:mentally deficient Arab gibberbots that way.
:
:So. How long do you think we'll have to wait until he pro-
:duces an abstract?
:

I'll book my skiing trip to Hell when that happens....


--
"We come into the world and take our chances.
Fate is just the weight of circumstances.
That's the way that Lady Luck dances.
Roll the bones...."
-- "Roll The Bones", Rush

Ian Parker wrote:
:
:The fundamental issue is that Fred and Deirdre are posting in a
:totally destructive way.
:

The fundamental issue is that Ian Parker is posting in a totally
brainless way.

:
:They have nothing really to say about NASA or
:the singularity university.
:

Nothing you want to hear, certainly, given how you keep ignoring
what's said and making up lies.

:
:I believe they are attempting to sabotage
:the new management of NASA.
:

I believe you must be absolutely insane. Just how do you think
posting to Usenet could do that?

:
:What have I in fact said? All I have done is simply point out that
:NASA has teamed up with Kurtzweil to carry out thre sort of things I
:was talking about earlier.
:

Yes, you pointed that out. The only problem is that it never
happened. Of course, you point out lots of things that aren't in
precise 1:1 accord with our current reality, so I guess I shouldn't be
surprised.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

"Fred J. McCall" wrote:

Deirdre Sholto Douglas wrote:
:
:Ah, well, Fred...you have to admit, if I'm going to steal an
:identity, I picked a good one...all the clothes fit me, I've the
:keys to the car and front door and I even like the look of
:her husband. :-)

And the dogs are cute, too.

Except you're not supposed to have a husband, since you're apparently
supposed to be my girlfriend. Except you're not a girl....

Shhh...no one's supposed to know we-us are from planet Starg
in the Proxima Elite Galaxy...as soon as I-we get the transmit-
ter fixed I-we'll resume our normal mind control, in the interim
we-us have been forced to lower ourselves to using the Internet.
You have no idea how hard it is to adapt to this quaint, text-only
communications network of yours...my-our ortho-palps do not
manipulate QWERTY keyboards easily and staring at the screen
is causing considerable eyestalk strain...

However, don't let my-our technological problems trouble you...the
hive cluster assures me-us that everything will be sorted shortly...
and I-we have noted you're remarkably non-sentient after ingestion
anyway (very poor evolutionary planning on your part, we-us must
say), therefore my-our genderless nature will no longer be a concern
for you. (After all, I-we are card-carrying members of the GSPCF
[Galactic Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Food] and we-us
would have you treated humanely.)

Would you please pass the ammonium chloride?

Deirdre