"The Future of Human Spaceflight"

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:48:27 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

On 13 Jan, 14:04, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:39:29 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

Hamas and Hezbullah have the appeal of liberation movements.

Hamas is not a "liberation movement." *It is a genocidal movement.

this is what Israei propaganda is saying.

Because it's true.

Neither Hamas nor Hezbullah
has ever proposed attacking western targets in general.

What part of "killing all Jews in creation" do you not understand?

Hamas agrees in principle to peace within the 1967 borders.

Completely insane nonsense. Its charter calls for the destruction of
Israel.

On 13 Jan, 15:16, (Rand Simberg) wrote:

There have been a number of informal contacts. Hamas (and Hezbullah)
have offices in Damascus. They are not that hard to contact.

Anyway what solutions do you propose? I can only think of one and that
is the complete extermination of the Palestinian people. We have come
to this point by means of a steady escalation by incompetant
politicians - on BOTH sides. I cannot see any goog outcome.

Barack Obama has said that he wants to set up a Middle East think
tank. This is an improvement from what has gone before. However I do
not rate his chance of success as high. I would not rate the chance of
manned spaceflight surviving as that high either. The only
justification as I have said is international goodwill over the ISS.

There is absolutely no other reason.


- Ian Parker

Ian Parker wrote:

:On 13 Jan, 14:04, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
: On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:39:29 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
: Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
: in such a way as to indicate that:
:
: Hamas and Hezbullah have the appeal of liberation movements.
:
: Hamas is not a "liberation movement." *It is a genocidal movement.
:
:this is what Israei propaganda is saying.
:

It also happens to be true, but that usually doesn't seem to penetrate
for you.

:
:Neither Hamas nor Hezbullah
:has ever proposed attacking western targets in general. Wht the great
:big US of A cannot keeps its paws off I will never know.
:

Uh, we don't have any military involvement there.

:
:Hamas agrees in principle to peace within the 1967 borders.
:

What are you smoking? That is absolutely the most preposterous thing
I've ever heard. If "Hamas agrees in principle to peace within the
1967 borders", it is only if all the Jews leave or are dead.

:
:They must
:clearly form a part of the peace process. They were after all
EMOCRATICALLY elected. Or, do you agree with elections only when they
roduce the result you want. As in Latin America .......
:

Even elected governments are responsible for what they do.

:
: Yet another hard truth. There are probably people out there with even
: better ideas than those I have put forward.
:
: It would be frightening to contemplate that there are people with
: worse ones.
:
:There are. You are one of them. Listen - nobody is going to buy maned
:spaceflight beyond LEO at the price tag proposed. Forget it.
:

Then get rid of all space flight. There's no point to it if we're not
going.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

On 14 Jan, 13:00, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Ian Parker wrote:

:On 13 Jan, 14:04, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
: On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:39:29 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
: Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
: in such a way as to indicate that:
:
: Hamas and Hezbullah have the appeal of liberation movements.
:
: Hamas is not a "liberation movement." *It is a genocidal movement.
:
:this is what Israei propaganda is saying.
:

It also happens to be true, but that usually doesn't seem to penetrate
for you.

:
:Neither Hamas nor Hezbullah
:has ever proposed attacking western targets in general. Wht the great
:big US of A cannot keeps its paws off I will never know.
:

Uh, we don't have any military involvement there.

:
:Hamas agrees in principle to peace within the 1967 borders.
:

What are you smoking? *That is absolutely the most preposterous thing
I've ever heard. *If "Hamas agrees in principle to peace within the
1967 borders", it is only if all the Jews leave or are dead.

:
:They must
:clearly form a part of the peace process. They were after all
EMOCRATICALLY elected. Or, do you agree with elections only when they
roduce the result you want. As in Latin America .......
:

Even elected governments are responsible for what they do.

:
: Yet another hard truth. There are probably people out there with even
: better ideas than those I have put forward.
:
: It would be frightening to contemplate that there are people with
: worse ones.
:
:There are. You are one of them. Listen - nobody is going to buy maned
:spaceflight beyond LEO at the price tag proposed. Forget it.
:

Then get rid of all space flight. *There's no point to it if we're not
going.

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine

Could you answer me one question. How did Hamas get elected?


- Ian Parker

Ian Parker wrote:

:On 14 Jan, 13:00, Fred J. McCall wrote:
: Ian Parker wrote:
:
: :On 13 Jan, 14:04, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
: : On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:39:29 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
: : Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
: : in such a way as to indicate that:
: :
: : Hamas and Hezbullah have the appeal of liberation movements.
: :
: : Hamas is not a "liberation movement." *It is a genocidal movement.
: :
: :this is what Israei propaganda is saying.
: :
:
: It also happens to be true, but that usually doesn't seem to penetrate
: for you.
:
: :
: :Neither Hamas nor Hezbullah
: :has ever proposed attacking western targets in general. Wht the great
: :big US of A cannot keeps its paws off I will never know.
: :
:
: Uh, we don't have any military involvement there.
:
: :
: :Hamas agrees in principle to peace within the 1967 borders.
: :
:
: What are you smoking? *That is absolutely the most preposterous thing
: I've ever heard. *If "Hamas agrees in principle to peace within the
: 1967 borders", it is only if all the Jews leave or are dead.
:
: :
: :They must
: :clearly form a part of the peace process. They were after all
: EMOCRATICALLY elected. Or, do you agree with elections only when they
: roduce the result you want. As in Latin America .......
: :
:
: Even elected governments are responsible for what they do.
:
: :
: : Yet another hard truth. There are probably people out there with even
: : better ideas than those I have put forward.
: :
: : It would be frightening to contemplate that there are people with
: : worse ones.
: :
: :There are. You are one of them. Listen - nobody is going to buy maned
: :spaceflight beyond LEO at the price tag proposed. Forget it.
: :
:
: Then get rid of all space flight. *There's no point to it if we're not
: going.
:
:
:Could you answer me one question. How did Hamas get elected?
:

What does that have to do with anything, Ian?


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

On 14 Jan, 15:08, Fred J. McCall wrote:

:
:Could you answer me one question. How did Hamas get elected?
:

What does that have to do with anything, Ian?


Thank you Fred! We now see the US naked. They are NOT interested in
democracy and never were.


- Ian Parker

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:33:34 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

On 14 Jan, 15:08, Fred J. McCall wrote:

:
:Could you answer me one question. How did Hamas get elected?
:

What does that have to do with anything, Ian?


Thank you Fred! We now see the US naked. They are NOT interested in
democracy and never were.

Hamas took power after having to share it with Fatah after the
election. It staged a coup, and killed many Fatah members. There
will never be another election in Gaza as long as these genocidal
monsters are in charge.

And you continue to display your abject ignorance about the subject.

On 14 Jan, 16:08, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:33:34 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

On 14 Jan, 15:08, Fred J. McCall wrote:

:
:Could you answer me one question. How did Hamas get elected?
:

What does that have to do with anything, Ian?

Thank you Fred! We now see the US naked. They are NOT interested in
democracy and never were.

Hamas took power after having to share it with Fatah after the
election. *It staged a coup, and killed many Fatah members. *There
will never be another election in Gaza as long as these genocidal
monsters are in charge.

And you continue to display your abject ignorance about the subject.

I don't know where you get your information from

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5016012.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...election,_2006

These are references from respected sources. Hamas won fair and square
with 74 seats to 45. The bbc reference gives the attitude to Israel.
Read carefully. Hamas official policy is the destruction of Israel BUT
will accept what amounts to 1967.

You seem to me to be simply a proagandist. You ill serve the cause of
peace. Peace in the region is vitally important for all of us.

Of course sufficiently large structures cannot be built anyway with
current technology (possibly fortunately), but the thought that the
élite are going to leg it to some space Shrangi La while the world in
general and the Middle East in particular are in flames absolutely
apals me.


- Ian Parker

On Jan 14, 8:33*am, Ian Parker wrote:

Thank you Fred! We now see the US naked. They are NOT interested in
democracy and never were.

The people who voted for Hamas, supposedly, were doing so because
Hamas was distributing aid fairly, while Fatah had descended into
corruption.

If a foreign country is shooting rockets at you, no, it doesn't matter
terribly if the government that decided to do this was democratically
elected or not. Aggression is aggression.

Other factors lead to categorizing the U.S. invasion of Iraq as other
than aggression.

Technical ones: Iraq committed aggression against Kuwait; as a result,
it was bound by a peace settlement, whose terms it had violated.

Political ones: Not _only_ is the U.S. a democracy, but it is a
liberal democracy. Its people, therefore, do not support a policy of
driving the Iraqis into the sea because they are Muslims daring to
rule themselves instead of being ruled by Christians. Instead, the
invasion was due to a perceived danger that the Saddam Hussein regime
might hand weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.

Democracy is a good thing, but that is at least in part because it
leads to other good things.

It leads to peace, because ordinary people do not want to die for the
aggrandizement of their leaders.

It leads to prosperity, because what people earn is not subject to
being capriciously stolen by a despot.

The tyranny of the majority - where a ruler gets elected to pursue a
policy of persecuting minorities - is not democracy in a meaningful
sense, because the most basic element of democracy, before elections,
is respect for human rights.

John Savard

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:14:37 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

On 14 Jan, 16:08, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:33:34 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

On 14 Jan, 15:08, Fred J. McCall wrote:

:
:Could you answer me one question. How did Hamas get elected?
:

What does that have to do with anything, Ian?

Thank you Fred! We now see the US naked. They are NOT interested in
democracy and never were.

Hamas took power after having to share it with Fatah after the
election. *It staged a coup, and killed many Fatah members. *There
will never be another election in Gaza as long as these genocidal
monsters are in charge.

And you continue to display your abject ignorance about the subject.

I don't know where you get your information from

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5016012.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...election,_2006

These are references from respected sources.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Hamas...ient=firefox-a

The bbc reference gives the attitude to Israel.
Read carefully. Hamas official policy is the destruction of Israel BUT
will accept what amounts to 1967.

Oh, so we should believe them, even though their official policy is
the destruction of Israel.

You seem to me to be simply a proagandist.

And you seem to me to be a naive fool.