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Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 27th 16, 06:39 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
SlurpieMcDoublegulp
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Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

"She sails by the memory of the stars.

Her bones are lashed together with 6 miles of rope. Her twin wooden masts are lowered and outstretched only by the power of muscled arms. And once fully extended, the red, V-shaped sails announce who she is.

She is the Hokule'a, Hawaii's famous voyaging canoe, built in the double-hulled style used by Polynesian navigators thousands of years ago to cross the Pacific.

Now, she's on a journey to make history, traversing the globe by wayfinding — an ancient Polynesian skill that requires memorizing hundreds of stars and where they rise and set on the ocean horizon. She has already crossed 26,000 miles of ocean and still has a year left to go."

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswit...p-of-the-stars
  #2  
Old May 27th 16, 06:53 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 6:39:04 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
"She sails by the memory of the stars.


Of course you come from a community of celestial sphere unfortunates and refuse to acknowledge that the 24 hour system and the Lat/Long system are built around the Earth's geometry and rotation within the framework of the calendar system.

Until accurate and practical watches were developed by John Harrison the only way was to 'sail the parallels' of latitude using the height of Polaris above the horizon,something Columbus would have done.

I have dealt with the assault on timekeeping and astronomy when the late 17th century dummies tried to model the Earth's motions using RA/Dec and that awful conclusion that shames everyone who looks at it in silence -

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml



  #3  
Old May 27th 16, 07:14 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
SlurpieMcDoublegulp
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Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 12:53:50 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 6:39:04 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
"She sails by the memory of the stars.


Of course you come from a community of celestial sphere unfortunates ....


Of course I don't.

  #4  
Old May 27th 16, 07:28 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
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Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 6:53:50 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

Until accurate and practical watches were developed by John Harrison


Watches? Watches!

You are, perhaps, in your ignorant fashion, referring to the Naval chronometer.

Watches, forsooth.
  #5  
Old May 27th 16, 08:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 7:14:19 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 12:53:50 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 6:39:04 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
"She sails by the memory of the stars.


Of course you come from a community of celestial sphere unfortunates .....


Of course I don't.


An astronomical hypothesis was generally accounting for motions of various celestial objects and particularly the planets and the moon and before that the Sun in geocentric astronomy. When accurate clocks arrived on the scene they employed it carelessly to circumpolar motion and tried to equate daily rotation directly with that motion and modeled orbital motion in as an afterthought.

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/...s/sidereal.gif

Unless you want to see the Lat/Long system butchered in order to make way for identification and magnification using the Equatorial Coordinate System then I suggest you follow the rules of the person who actually was a one man version of NASA -

"The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon the
following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360 equal
parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are called
Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round its own
axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period, each of
those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively opposite to the
Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day at each of
those degrees and it must follow, that from the time any one of
those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just four
minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that quantity; so
that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it will be noon
with us four minutes the later, and for every degree Eastward four
minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any greater or less
quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place where we are,
can be ascertained by well known and easy observations of the Sun if
visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten degrees high
until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon until he is
only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at any time when
such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the same moment
what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our Longitude is
clearly discovered." John Harrison


The key feature is how to exploit the 'average' 24 hour day and convert that average into constant rotation at a rate of 4 minutes per degree of rotation but that means starting back in antiquity with the creation of the calendar framework.

I offered you the opportunity to develop software that uses the annual motion of the stars minus circumpolar motion as this long term observation will produce imaging of the planets and moon as they actually move through space and outside their motion from horizon to horizon each night .
  #6  
Old May 27th 16, 11:46 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
SlurpieMcDoublegulp
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Posts: 134
Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 7:14:19 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 12:53:50 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 6:39:04 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
"She sails by the memory of the stars.


Of course you come from a community of celestial sphere unfortunates ....


Of course I don't.


An astronomical hypothesis was generally accounting for motions of various celestial objects and particularly the planets and the moon and before that the Sun in geocentric astronomy. When accurate clocks arrived on the scene they employed it carelessly to circumpolar motion and tried to equate daily rotation directly with that motion and modeled orbital motion in as an afterthought.

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/...s/sidereal.gif

Unless you want to see the Lat/Long system butchered in order to make way for identification and magnification using the Equatorial Coordinate System then I suggest you follow the rules of the person who actually was a one man version of NASA -

"The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon the
following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360 equal
parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are called
Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round its own
axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period, each of
those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively opposite to the
Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day at each of
those degrees and it must follow, that from the time any one of
those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just four
minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that quantity; so
that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it will be noon
with us four minutes the later, and for every degree Eastward four
minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any greater or less
quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place where we are,
can be ascertained by well known and easy observations of the Sun if
visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten degrees high
until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon until he is
only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at any time when
such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the same moment
what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our Longitude is
clearly discovered." John Harrison


The key feature is how to exploit the 'average' 24 hour day and convert that average into constant rotation at a rate of 4 minutes per degree of rotation but that means starting back in antiquity with the creation of the calendar framework.

I offered you the opportunity to develop software that uses the annual motion of the stars minus circumpolar motion as this long term observation will produce imaging of the planets and moon as they actually move through space and outside their motion from horizon to horizon each night .


Golden Retrievers require regular grooming and occasional baths. They should be groomed at least once a week, and every day during heavy shedding. They should be bathed every two months. Their coats shed somewhat during the year, but are known to shed profusely twice a year. You're welcome
  #7  
Old May 28th 16, 01:47 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_6_]
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Posts: 1,076
Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Friday, 27 May 2016 13:39:04 UTC-4, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
"She sails by the memory of the stars.

Her bones are lashed together with 6 miles of rope. Her twin wooden masts are lowered and outstretched only by the power of muscled arms. And once fully extended, the red, V-shaped sails announce who she is.

She is the Hokule'a, Hawaii's famous voyaging canoe, built in the double-hulled style used by Polynesian navigators thousands of years ago to cross the Pacific.

Now, she's on a journey to make history, traversing the globe by wayfinding — an ancient Polynesian skill that requires memorizing hundreds of stars and where they rise and set on the ocean horizon. She has already crossed 26,000 miles of ocean and still has a year left to go."

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswit...p-of-the-stars


Figures the writer would use it as a pulpit for climate change. A stone-age culture's product. What would the Phoenicians, Greeks, Vikings, Spanish, Portuguese, English have all done without the benefit of a Hawaiian canoe to sail the seas?
  #8  
Old May 28th 16, 03:34 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:46:16 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 7:14:19 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 12:53:50 PM UTC-5, oriel36 wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 6:39:04 PM UTC+1, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
"She sails by the memory of the stars.


Of course you come from a community of celestial sphere unfortunates ....

Of course I don't.


An astronomical hypothesis was generally accounting for motions of various celestial objects and particularly the planets and the moon and before that the Sun in geocentric astronomy. When accurate clocks arrived on the scene they employed it carelessly to circumpolar motion and tried to equate daily rotation directly with that motion and modeled orbital motion in as an afterthought.

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/.../sidereal..gif

Unless you want to see the Lat/Long system butchered in order to make way for identification and magnification using the Equatorial Coordinate System then I suggest you follow the rules of the person who actually was a one man version of NASA -

"The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon the
following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360 equal
parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are called
Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round its own
axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period, each of
those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively opposite to the
Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day at each of
those degrees and it must follow, that from the time any one of
those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just four
minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that quantity; so
that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it will be noon
with us four minutes the later, and for every degree Eastward four
minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any greater or less
quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place where we are,
can be ascertained by well known and easy observations of the Sun if
visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten degrees high
until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon until he is
only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at any time when
such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the same moment
what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our Longitude is
clearly discovered." John Harrison


The key feature is how to exploit the 'average' 24 hour day and convert that average into constant rotation at a rate of 4 minutes per degree of rotation but that means starting back in antiquity with the creation of the calendar framework.

I offered you the opportunity to develop software that uses the annual motion of the stars minus circumpolar motion as this long term observation will produce imaging of the planets and moon as they actually move through space and outside their motion from horizon to horizon each night .


Golden Retrievers require regular grooming and occasional baths. They should be groomed at least once a week, and every day during heavy shedding. They should be bathed every two months. Their coats shed somewhat during the year, but are known to shed profusely twice a year. You're welcome


I have no need to criticize you Rolando as you are caught up in the cogs of a clockwork driven nightmare and have yet to let the light shine in on an unthinking mind -

"And twofold Always. May God us keep
From Single vision & Newtons sleep"
William Blake

For people destined to navigate in space they will have to set aside the rotating celestial sphere and begin to look at motions as they really do happen seen from a moving Earth so what I do sometimes is take a slight detour in taking into account Earth-bound timekeeping,its roots and its misuse by those careless people a few centuries ago.



  #9  
Old May 28th 16, 10:18 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 12:28:48 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 6:53:50 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

Until accurate and practical watches were developed by John Harrison


Watches? Watches!

You are, perhaps, in your ignorant fashion, referring to the Naval chronometer.

Watches, forsooth.


It's certainly true that I wouldn't want to try putting his first attempt at a
Naval chronometer on my wrist, as it was about twice the size of a breadbox.

Of course, before there were wris****ches, there were pocket watches; that
history usually goes back to the Nuremberg Egg - but the earliest watches were
not very accurate, and thus wholly unsuitable for use as chronometers.

John Savard
  #10  
Old May 28th 16, 10:22 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Hokule'a, The Hawaiian Canoe Traveling The World By A Map Of The Stars

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 3:18:19 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

It's certainly true that I wouldn't want to try putting his first attempt at a
Naval chronometer on my wrist, as it was about twice the size of a breadbox.


Looking for a photo, I found this site

http://www.my-time-machines.net/halfwaypoint1

by someone building his own replica of it.

Here's a site with the real thing.

http://www.rmg.co.uk/see-do/we-recom...chronometer-h1

John Savard
 




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