Is alien enemy ET warp drive propellantless propulsion impossible in principle?

I think the answer must be "yes". There are 2 parts to that answer.
The first is a general comment about FTL and causality violation. The
second is in terms of the impossibility of an alien visit (puerde leer
en espanl - the AI question). This second point covers both FTL and
sub luminal Von Neumann technology.

You can (without causality violation) travel FTL iff you have an
absolute frame of reference. In other words the negative mass you
would need for a warp drive has to be tied to an absolute frame of
reference. Could someone tell me please what that absolute frame is?
Is it tied in some sense to the apparent center of expansion of the
Universe. There is one important point here. The maths given by Jack
cannot be right for this reason. The positive mass is relativizstic
and has no frame of reference. The negative mass is tied to a FOR and
cannot obey the relativistic equations fully.

FTL with PARTICLES can be made paradox free by postulating a self
consistent Feynmann diagram, in which past and future are combined. I
have a feeling at the back of my mind. If you were to take a wormhole,
warp drive or any other FTL device it would cause infinities in its
Feynmann diagram. That is because a return journey could be made
before you had started. Deep question - Is Inflation itself caused by
infinities in a FD? Is it a valid way of looking at it?

On the question of AI. ET (if there is one, I am doing reducto ad
absurdam here). ET on arrival will have established AI on the Web. He
will already have done what Google is struggling to do (and admittedly
making some progress). ET does not need Guardians, the AI will perform
that job. Postings will all be multilingual. If a warp drive were
possible there is one of two possibilities. Either the design would be
published and we would all agree about it, or it is wrong. ET would
not allow the publication by you of a correct design.


- Ian Parker

Puerde leer en espagnol - (razon segundo)

Ian Parker wrote:

I think the answer must be "yes". There are 2 parts to that answer.

Feynmann diagrams are insignificant in the broader picture, they are
abstract concepts conjured up by the human mind to assist in
understanding calculations which were also fabricated mentally.

From a cosmic perspective, proof itself is suspect, by definition.

What you need to be doing is looking at philosophical foundations.

Generally, one attempts to confirm or deny whether reality is real.

The mere existence of reality confirms the notion that 'nothing' is
impossible, but since clearly 'something' exists, if reality is real.
This gets you directly into indistinguishability theory because for
'something' to be impossible, you must specify what that 'something' is,
and once you do that, it exists, at the very least inside of your mind.

Do you see the fundamental contradiction there? I always knew there was
something fundamentally wrong with the universe. I wrote a seminal paper
on this once. Eventually, you get down to a nub of a concept of the
geometry of information, but whether that is reality is debatable. Your
theory of nature has to conform with the reality of nature, otherwise
it's just fantasy, and your entire mathematical construct is nonsense.
It's easy to build nonsensical stuff, crackpots do it all the time.

It's called Art.

http://cosmic.lifeform.net/index.php?paged=4

--
Get A Free Orbiter Space Flight Simulator :
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html

On Jun 14, 9:09 am, Ian Parker wrote:
I think the answer must be "yes". There are 2 parts to that answer.
The first is a general comment about FTL and causality violation. The
second is in terms of the impossibility of an alien visit (puerde leer
en espanl - the AI question). This second point covers both FTL and
sub luminal Von Neumann technology.

You can (without causality violation) travel FTL iff you have an
absolute frame of reference. In other words the negative mass you
would need for a warp drive has to be tied to an absolute frame of
reference. Could someone tell me please what that absolute frame is?
Is it tied in some sense to the apparent center of expansion of the
Universe. There is one important point here. The maths given by Jack
cannot be right for this reason. The positive mass is relativizstic
and has no frame of reference. The negative mass is tied to a FOR and
cannot obey the relativistic equations fully.

FTL with PARTICLES can be made paradox free by postulating a self
consistent Feynmann diagram, in which past and future are combined. I
have a feeling at the back of my mind. If you were to take a wormhole,
warp drive or any other FTL device it would cause infinities in its
Feynmann diagram. That is because a return journey could be made
before you had started. Deep question - Is Inflation itself caused by
infinities in a FD? Is it a valid way of looking at it?

On the question of AI. ET (if there is one, I am doing reducto ad
absurdam here). ET on arrival will have established AI on the Web. He
will already have done what Google is struggling to do (and admittedly
making some progress). ET does not need Guardians, the AI will perform
that job. Postings will all be multilingual. If a warp drive were
possible there is one of two possibilities. Either the design would be
published and we would all agree about it, or it is wrong. ET would
not allow the publication by you of a correct design.

i think you are misunderstanding
the proposed physics of the alcubierre drive

this drive does not locally cause faster-than-light effects

the space is warped such that
the vehicle/particle/matter is in flat spacetime
and only the space is curved outside this area

general relativity is locally lorentzian
not globally
so i do not understand some of your other points

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar

On Jun 14, 3:34 pm, galathaea wrote:

so i do not understand some of your other points


of course you don't. one must be the ALPHA MALE to understand.

On Jun 14, 6:54 pm, " porky_pig...@my-
deja.com wrote:
On Jun 14, 3:34 pm, galathaea wrote:
so i do not understand some of your other points

of course you don't. one must be the ALPHA MALE to understand.

or an extraterrestrial?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar

On 14 Jun, 20:34, galathaea wrote:
On Jun 14, 9:09 am, Ian Parker wrote:





I think the answer must be "yes". There are 2 parts to that answer.
The first is a general comment about FTL and causality violation. The
second is in terms of the impossibility of an alien visit (puerde leer
en espanl - the AI question). This second point covers both FTL and
sub luminal Von Neumann technology.

You can (without causality violation) travel FTL iff you have an
absolute frame of reference. In other words the negative mass you
would need for a warp drive has to be tied to an absolute frame of
reference. Could someone tell me please what that absolute frame is?
Is it tied in some sense to the apparent center of expansion of the
Universe. There is one important point here. The maths given by Jack
cannot be right for this reason. The positive mass is relativizstic
and has no frame of reference. The negative mass is tied to a FOR and
cannot obey the relativistic equations fully.

FTL with PARTICLES can be made paradox free by postulating a self
consistent Feynmann diagram, in which past and future are combined. I
have a feeling at the back of my mind. If you were to take a wormhole,
warp drive or any other FTL device it would cause infinities in its
Feynmann diagram. That is because a return journey could be made
before you had started. Deep question - Is Inflation itself caused by
infinities in a FD? Is it a valid way of looking at it?

On the question of AI. ET (if there is one, I am doing reducto ad
absurdam here). ET on arrival will have established AI on the Web. He
will already have done what Google is struggling to do (and admittedly
making some progress). ET does not need Guardians, the AI will perform
that job. Postings will all be multilingual. If a warp drive were
possible there is one of two possibilities. Either the design would be
published and we would all agree about it, or it is wrong. ET would
not allow the publication by you of a correct design.

i think you are misunderstanding
the proposed physics of the alcubierre drive

this drive does not locally cause faster-than-light effects

the space is warped such that
the vehicle/particle/matter is in flat spacetime
and only the space is curved outside this area

general relativity is locally lorentzian
not globally
so i do not understand some of your other points

Look, the whole point about warp drives is that they are FTL. They
LOGICALLY have to have negative mass which does in fact imply the
possibility of FTL assemblages. FTL is always "gedanken" in any warp
scheme. There is one further point. If you have negative mass and do
not want to travel FTL, it is much simpler simply to put your mass
close to zero and accelerate to 0.99c (say. OK as Sam Wormley says any
speck of dust is a nuclear bomb, but there are methods of shielding.

General relativity if locally not globally Lorentzian. I don't really
know what that means. GR deals with space - true. The expansion of the
Universe is FTL. This is so since the cosmological principle states
that the Universe looks the same everywhere. We are at the center of
the Universe as is everone else. For this to be so the distant parts
are FTL. However we have an event horizon. We cannot travel there.
Globally then space expands so GR is obeyed where we are (ie. at the
center of the Universe). There is no paradox in this.

If however we have a black box, or a series of black boxes in the
local Universe through which we can pass FTL there certainly are. I
would like to make one correction to what I said previously. If you
have 2 wormholes, or perhaps one complicated wormhole might do, you
arrive from a double journey before you have started.

As far as Feynmann diagrams being an aid to visualization, of course
this is true. The philosophical solution is that the particle creates
a self consistent past and future. If we go deeper into this we find
that the tachyon has interactions with other particles, and would be
bound up with the whole of elementary particle physics even though we
would not be aware of it immediately.


- Ian Parker

Ian Parker wrote:

General relativity if locally not globally Lorentzian. I don't really
know what that means.

Then you should learn what it means before trying to understand the
implications of space-warping FTL travel. You *must* learn what it
means before trying to describe those implications, much less *derive*
them.

Start your education by searching for the phrase "Lorentz invariant".

On 15 Jun, 12:54, Alan Anderson wrote:
Ian Parker wrote:
General relativity if locally not globally Lorentzian. I don't really
know what that means.

Then you should learn what it means before trying to understand the
implications of space-warping FTL travel. You *must* learn what it
means before trying to describe those implications, much less *derive*
them.

Start your education by searching for the phrase "Lorentz invariant".

These are the impications of ANY FTL. I am well aware of worholes
warping and the general theory. If you have FTL (any method) you have
a defined process within SU2 (I prefer in fact to write the Lorentz
equations in trigonometrical form. A black box - any sort of black box
- is invariant under SU2. I feel that the warp (wormhole) paradox
arises out of incomplete Feynmann diagrams and an incomplete theory.

Let me take an example the Dirac equation. Schroedinger's equation is
not relativistically invariant (ie does not transform according to
SU2). If we construct an equation which does (the Dirac equation) we
get an SU2 invariant formalism. We can treat FTL as a pure problem in
particle physics. On the face of it going through a wormhole and the
going through another wormhole at a different speed (rotational angle)
will bring you out before you started. The only thing that can stop
this is some form of interaction between the two wormholes. A sinilar
situation holds with warp drive. A warp drive is a time machine. If I
go somewhere and come back I can travel back in time. If I send a
particle through a pair of wormholes I am going to get out a super
(possibly infinite) massive particle. I am quite close, am I not, to
Inflation.

If I travel to a star 1000ly distant I am in a sense electronically
tagged to prevent me violating paradoxes. What is the nature of the
tagging? Now for warp/worhole any FTL negative mass is needed. The tag
can only exist in the form of the negative mass and its interactions.
Does negative mass exist? Well Inflation is viewed as a runaway
process involving negative mass, so it probably does. Can it be
produced and conjured up out of the Universe now? Probably not, we
know negative mass is tied to other pices of negative mass and the
whole process of the Big Bang is responsible, to a degree at any rate
to the observed properties of particles.

This means that NM is very much associated with the Big Bang. It is
unlikely that it could be produced outside a BB and if it ever did
surface it would cause a new Inflationary cycle.

I think that all our experiments etc. will never come to anything. I
am 99.9999999% sure. If it did it would again be 99% certain to be
inflationary. This is really what I am referring to when I talk about
the arrogance of the military and the risks they take.

The military are spending money with gay abandon - pun intentional!
They seem intent on second guessing the best scientific effort. Anyway
I have some more news for you. The US is distrusted thoughout the
Middle East. Inducing people to do things contrary to their culture is
going to make the situation in the Middle East even worse than it is
now - that is just about possible. Human sexual response is a complex
subject (even more complex that cosmology! Many people who had
homosexual experiences at independent single sex schools have guilt
about it. Do you really want to aid the cause iof extremism. That is
what you are doing. You take risks that are totally, totally
unwarranted and unnecessary.


- Ian Parker

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:04:16 -0700, in a place far, far away, Ian
Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

This means that NM is very much associated with the Big Bang. It is
unlikely that it could be produced outside a BB and if it ever did
surface it would cause a new Inflationary cycle.

I think that all our experiments etc. will never come to anything. I
am 99.9999999% sure. If it did it would again be 99% certain to be
inflationary. This is really what I am referring to when I talk about
the arrogance of the military and the risks they take.

The military are spending money with gay abandon - pun intentional!
They seem intent on second guessing the best scientific effort. Anyway
I have some more news for you. The US is distrusted thoughout the
Middle East. Inducing people to do things contrary to their culture is
going to make the situation in the Middle East even worse than it is
now - that is just about possible. Human sexual response is a complex
subject (even more complex that cosmology! Many people who had
homosexual experiences at independent single sex schools have guilt
about it. Do you really want to aid the cause iof extremism. That is
what you are doing. You take risks that are totally, totally
unwarranted and unnecessary.

I'm not sure that I've ever seen so many non-sequiturs in a single
paragraph. I've seen more in a single post, from Chomko, but Chomko
usually breaks them up into separate paragraphs.

On 15 Jun, 15:34, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 07:04:16 -0700, in a place far, far away, Ian
Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:





This means that NM is very much associated with the Big Bang. It is
unlikely that it could be produced outside a BB and if it ever did
surface it would cause a new Inflationary cycle.

I think that all our experiments etc. will never come to anything. I
am 99.9999999% sure. If it did it would again be 99% certain to be
inflationary. This is really what I am referring to when I talk about
the arrogance of the military and the risks they take.

The military are spending money with gay abandon - pun intentional!
They seem intent on second guessing the best scientific effort. Anyway
I have some more news for you. The US is distrusted thoughout the
Middle East. Inducing people to do things contrary to their culture is
going to make the situation in the Middle East even worse than it is
now - that is just about possible. Human sexual response is a complex
subject (even more complex that cosmology! Many people who had
homosexual experiences at independent single sex schools have guilt
about it. Do you really want to aid the cause iof extremism. That is
what you are doing. You take risks that are totally, totally
unwarranted and unnecessary.

I'm not sure that I've ever seen so many non-sequiturs in a single
paragraph. I've seen more in a single post, from Chomko, but Chomko
usually breaks them up into separate paragraphs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What I am in fact endeavouring to show is that elementary particle
physics is free from paradox. Sometimes steps need to be taken to make
it so, as with the Dirac equation. I know this is difficult to grasp
and put across.

If you have paradoxes your assumptions are wrong. FTL is paradoxical -
no one can say otherwise.


- Ian Parker