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SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 16th 07, 06:50 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,955
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE

Bill Hobba wrote in sci.physics.relativity:
"Pentcho Valev" wrote:
Roberts Roberts a few years ago you discovered that, even if "light in
vacuum does not travel at the invariant speed of the Lorentz
transform", "SR would be unaffected":


Tom did not discover that - it is a simple consequence of the fact light can
be modelled by, for example, the Proca equations, with a very small mass
instead of the usual one, and be in agreement with all current evidence,
provided the mass is taken as small enough.


http://groups.google.com/group/sci.p...c5ec387a7e789?
Tom Roberts: "if it is ultimately discovered that the photon has a
nonzero mass (i.e. light in vacuum does not travel at the invariant
speed of the Lorentz transform), SR would be unaffected but both
Maxwell's equations and QED would be refuted (or rather, their domains
of applicability would be reduced)."


I thought initially Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond discovered that, even if
"light in vacuum does not travel at the invariant speed of the Lorentz
transform", "SR would be unaffected":

http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/onemorederivation.pdf
Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond: "The evidence of the nonzero mass of the
photon would not, as such, shake in any way the validity of the
special relalivity. It would, however, nullify all its derivations
which are based on the invariance of the photon velocity."

Are time dilation and length contraction "derivations which are based
on the invariance of the photon velocity"? More questions could be
asked but neither Tom Roberts nor Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond nor any other
hypnotist in Einstein criminal cult would ever answer. Only bellicose
zombies will continue to defend "special relativity based on the light
postulate", "special relativity without the light postulate" and, if
necessary, "special relativity both with and without the light
postulate".

Pentcho Valev

Ads
  #2  
Old June 16th 07, 05:26 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
THE_ONE
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE

On Jun 16, 1:50 am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
Bill Hobba wrote in sci.physics.relativity:





"Pentcho Valev" wrote:
Roberts Roberts a few years ago you discovered that, even if "light in
vacuum does not travel at the invariant speed of the Lorentz
transform", "SR would be unaffected":


Tom did not discover that - it is a simple consequence of the fact light can
be modelled by, for example, the Proca equations, with a very small mass
instead of the usual one, and be in agreement with all current evidence,
provided the mass is taken as small enough.


http://groups.google.com/group/sci.p...rowse_frm/thre...
Tom Roberts: "if it is ultimately discovered that the photon has a
nonzero mass (i.e. light in vacuum does not travel at the invariant
speed of the Lorentz transform), SR would be unaffected but both
Maxwell's equations and QED would be refuted (or rather, their domains
of applicability would be reduced)."


I thought initially Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond discovered that, even if
"light in vacuum does not travel at the invariant speed of the Lorentz
transform", "SR would be unaffected":

http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/onemorederivation.pdf
Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond: "The evidence of the nonzero mass of the
photon would not, as such, shake in any way the validity of the
special relalivity. It would, however, nullify all its derivations
which are based on the invariance of the photon velocity."

Are time dilation and length contraction "derivations which are based
on the invariance of the photon velocity"? More questions could be
asked but neither Tom Roberts nor Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond nor any other
hypnotist in Einstein criminal cult would ever answer. Only bellicose
zombies will continue to defend "special relativity based on the light
postulate", "special relativity without the light postulate" and, if
necessary, "special relativity both with and without the light
postulate".

Pentcho Valev- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


If all that surrounded you suddenly was in motion through time at a
much slower rate, then you may see a baseball passing by you at an
incredibly slow speed. If you try to alter its path of motion, it
will take a large amount of energy to do so. It will give the
appearance as though the baseball's mass is much larger than expected.

If a baseball was in motion across space at a high velocity, it would
also be in motion across time at a slower rate since clocks a ticking
at a slower pace in its new frame. Here to if one tried to alter its
path of motion it would seem as though its mass had increased due to
its slow motion across time.

All matter is constantly in motion in Space-Time. The only change that
can occur is the change of direction of travel in Space-Time.

If a meson is at rest in space, then its constant motion is now
confined to being across Time only. If the meson then breaks down and
splits into two photons, then these photons will fly apart from each
other, and each will travel across space at the speed of light.
However, since the meson was in motion across the dimension of Time,
the photons too are also still flying across the dimension of Time
even though they also are in motion across space.

As the result of this, there is no simulation of an increase in mass
of each of these photons even though they travel across space at the
speed of light.

  #3  
Old June 17th 07, 06:40 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,955
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE

An extremely important discovery made recently by Tom Roberts, the
Albert Einstein of our generation and apparently the last active
hypnotist in Einstein criminal cult:

http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...32844f0766cea?
Tom Roberts wrote in sci.physics.relativity: "While the constancy of
the speed of light was important in the historical development of SR,
I agree it has no logical place as a postulate of SR. Einstein's
second postulate can be replaced by any of a number of suitable
postulates, of which I like this one best: There is a finite upper
bound on the speed of propagation of information."

So time dilation, length contraction and all other idiocies will now
be rigorously deduced from "there is a finite upper bound on the speed
of propagation of information". The world is eager to see the
deduction.

Pentcho Valev

  #4  
Old June 17th 07, 08:55 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Androcles[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,040
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE


"Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
ups.com...
: An extremely important discovery made recently by Tom Roberts, the
: Albert Einstein of our generation and apparently the last active
: hypnotist in Einstein criminal cult:
:
:
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...32844f0766cea?
: Tom Roberts wrote in sci.physics.relativity: "While the constancy of
: the speed of light was important in the historical development of SR,
: I agree it has no logical place as a postulate of SR. Einstein's
: second postulate can be replaced by any of a number of suitable
: postulates, of which I like this one best: There is a finite upper
: bound on the speed of propagation of information."
:
: So time dilation, length contraction and all other idiocies will now
: be rigorously deduced from "there is a finite upper bound on the speed
: of propagation of information". The world is eager to see the
: deduction.
:
: Pentcho Valev

What Humpty Roberts likes isn't relevant to physics.
Einstein's time postulate is : the time required by light to travel from A
to B equals the time it requires to travel from B to A, which is disproven
by the Cassini probe to Saturn.
That's a fact whether Humpty Roberts agrees, disagrees, likes or doesn't
like it.



  #5  
Old June 19th 07, 08:07 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,955
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE


Androcles wrote:
"Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
ups.com...
: An extremely important discovery made recently by Tom Roberts, the
: Albert Einstein of our generation and apparently the last active
: hypnotist in Einstein criminal cult:
:
:
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...32844f0766cea?
: Tom Roberts wrote in sci.physics.relativity: "While the constancy of
: the speed of light was important in the historical development of SR,
: I agree it has no logical place as a postulate of SR. Einstein's
: second postulate can be replaced by any of a number of suitable
: postulates, of which I like this one best: There is a finite upper
: bound on the speed of propagation of information."
:
: So time dilation, length contraction and all other idiocies will now
: be rigorously deduced from "there is a finite upper bound on the speed
: of propagation of information". The world is eager to see the
: deduction.
:
: Pentcho Valev

What Humpty Roberts likes isn't relevant to physics.
Einstein's time postulate is : the time required by light to travel from A
to B equals the time it requires to travel from B to A, which is disproven
by the Cassini probe to Saturn.
That's a fact whether Humpty Roberts agrees, disagrees, likes or doesn't
like it.


I suspect hypnotists in Einstein criminal cult like Tom Roberts think
of themselves in the following way: "I am destroying human rationality
and the grateful humanity pays me for that. Could there be a more
convincing proof that I am great? No."

Pentcho Valev

  #6  
Old June 19th 07, 12:26 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Androcles[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,040
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE


"Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
oups.com...
:
: Androcles wrote:
: "Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
: ups.com...
: : An extremely important discovery made recently by Tom Roberts, the
: : Albert Einstein of our generation and apparently the last active
: : hypnotist in Einstein criminal cult:
: :
: :
:
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...32844f0766cea?
: : Tom Roberts wrote in sci.physics.relativity: "While the constancy of
: : the speed of light was important in the historical development of SR,
: : I agree it has no logical place as a postulate of SR. Einstein's
: : second postulate can be replaced by any of a number of suitable
: : postulates, of which I like this one best: There is a finite upper
: : bound on the speed of propagation of information."
: :
: : So time dilation, length contraction and all other idiocies will now
: : be rigorously deduced from "there is a finite upper bound on the speed
: : of propagation of information". The world is eager to see the
: : deduction.
: :
: : Pentcho Valev
:
: What Humpty Roberts likes isn't relevant to physics.
: Einstein's time postulate is : the time required by light to travel from
A
: to B equals the time it requires to travel from B to A, which is
disproven
: by the Cassini probe to Saturn.
: That's a fact whether Humpty Roberts agrees, disagrees, likes or doesn't
: like it.
:
: I suspect hypnotists in Einstein criminal cult like Tom Roberts think
: of themselves in the following way: "I am destroying human rationality
: and the grateful humanity pays me for that. Could there be a more
: convincing proof that I am great? No."
:
: Pentcho Valev
:
Actually he and Lucent Technologies parted company some time ago, I'm sure
they were tired of his rantings whilst on company time.
The real criminals are lurking hidden in wackypedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...ity#Postulates

where it is impossible to bring to the attention of the public what
Einstein's third postulate actually says, and such persuasive rhetoric such
as "the power of Einstein's argument" is carefully employed.

If you attempt to amend wackypedia to the truth then Ed Schaffer, self
appointed wackypedia censor and editor, will not permit it.






  #7  
Old June 23rd 07, 09:24 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,955
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE


Androcles wrote:
"Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
oups.com...
:
: Androcles wrote:
: "Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
: ups.com...
: : An extremely important discovery made recently by Tom Roberts, the
: : Albert Einstein of our generation and apparently the last active
: : hypnotist in Einstein criminal cult:
: :
: :
:
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...32844f0766cea?
: : Tom Roberts wrote in sci.physics.relativity: "While the constancy of
: : the speed of light was important in the historical development of SR,
: : I agree it has no logical place as a postulate of SR. Einstein's
: : second postulate can be replaced by any of a number of suitable
: : postulates, of which I like this one best: There is a finite upper
: : bound on the speed of propagation of information."
: :
: : So time dilation, length contraction and all other idiocies will now
: : be rigorously deduced from "there is a finite upper bound on the speed
: : of propagation of information". The world is eager to see the
: : deduction.
: :
: : Pentcho Valev
:
: What Humpty Roberts likes isn't relevant to physics.
: Einstein's time postulate is : the time required by light to travel from
A
: to B equals the time it requires to travel from B to A, which is
disproven
: by the Cassini probe to Saturn.
: That's a fact whether Humpty Roberts agrees, disagrees, likes or doesn't
: like it.
:
: I suspect hypnotists in Einstein criminal cult like Tom Roberts think
: of themselves in the following way: "I am destroying human rationality
: and the grateful humanity pays me for that. Could there be a more
: convincing proof that I am great? No."
:
: Pentcho Valev
:
Actually he and Lucent Technologies parted company some time ago, I'm sure
they were tired of his rantings whilst on company time.
The real criminals are lurking hidden in wackypedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...ity#Postulates

where it is impossible to bring to the attention of the public what
Einstein's third postulate actually says, and such persuasive rhetoric such
as "the power of Einstein's argument" is carefully employed.

If you attempt to amend wackypedia to the truth then Ed Schaffer, self
appointed wackypedia censor and editor, will not permit it.


At least criminals in Wikipedia are straightforward - the speed of
light is constant and that's it. Relativists like Tom Roberts and Jean-
Marc Levy-Leblond deliberately introduce confusions and even
plagiarize one another in the process:

http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/onemorederivation.pdf
Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond: "The evidence of the nonzero mass of the
photon would not, as such, shake in any way the validity of the
special relalivity. It would, however, nullify all its derivations
which are based on the invariance of the photon velocity."

http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...4dc146100e32c?
Tom Roberts: "If it is ultimately discovered that the photon has a
nonzero mass (i.e. light in vacuum does not travel at the invariant
speed of the Lorentz transform), SR would be unaffected but both
Maxwell's equations and QED would be refuted (or rather, their domains
of applicability would be reduced)."

Pentcho Valev

  #8  
Old June 23rd 07, 11:14 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Androcles[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,040
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE


"Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
ps.com...
:
: Androcles wrote:
: "Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
: oups.com...
: :
: : Androcles wrote:
: : "Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
: : ups.com...
: : : An extremely important discovery made recently by Tom Roberts, the
: : : Albert Einstein of our generation and apparently the last active
: : : hypnotist in Einstein criminal cult:
: : :
: : :
: :
:
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...32844f0766cea?
: : : Tom Roberts wrote in sci.physics.relativity: "While the constancy
of
: : : the speed of light was important in the historical development of
SR,
: : : I agree it has no logical place as a postulate of SR. Einstein's
: : : second postulate can be replaced by any of a number of suitable
: : : postulates, of which I like this one best: There is a finite upper
: : : bound on the speed of propagation of information."
: : :
: : : So time dilation, length contraction and all other idiocies will
now
: : : be rigorously deduced from "there is a finite upper bound on the
speed
: : : of propagation of information". The world is eager to see the
: : : deduction.
: : :
: : : Pentcho Valev
: :
: : What Humpty Roberts likes isn't relevant to physics.
: : Einstein's time postulate is : the time required by light to travel
from
: A
: : to B equals the time it requires to travel from B to A, which is
: disproven
: : by the Cassini probe to Saturn.
: : That's a fact whether Humpty Roberts agrees, disagrees, likes or
doesn't
: : like it.
: :
: : I suspect hypnotists in Einstein criminal cult like Tom Roberts think
: : of themselves in the following way: "I am destroying human rationality
: : and the grateful humanity pays me for that. Could there be a more
: : convincing proof that I am great? No."
: :
: : Pentcho Valev
: :
: Actually he and Lucent Technologies parted company some time ago, I'm
sure
: they were tired of his rantings whilst on company time.
: The real criminals are lurking hidden in wackypedia
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...ity#Postulates
:
: where it is impossible to bring to the attention of the public what
: Einstein's third postulate actually says, and such persuasive rhetoric
such
: as "the power of Einstein's argument" is carefully employed.
:
: If you attempt to amend wackypedia to the truth then Ed Schaffer, self
: appointed wackypedia censor and editor, will not permit it.
:
: At least criminals in Wikipedia are straightforward - the speed of
: light is constant and that's it. Relativists like Tom Roberts and Jean-
: Marc Levy-Leblond deliberately introduce confusions and even
: plagiarize one another in the process:
:
: http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/onemorederivation.pdf
: Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond: "The evidence of the nonzero mass of the
: photon would not, as such, shake in any way the validity of the
: special relalivity. It would, however, nullify all its derivations
: which are based on the invariance of the photon velocity."
:
:
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...4dc146100e32c?
: Tom Roberts: "If it is ultimately discovered that the photon has a
: nonzero mass (i.e. light in vacuum does not travel at the invariant
: speed of the Lorentz transform), SR would be unaffected but both
: Maxwell's equations and QED would be refuted (or rather, their domains
: of applicability would be reduced)."
:
: Pentcho Valev
:
Based as they are on the sci-fi rantings of Einstein and his time machine
pseudo-mathematics, neither one advances any understanding of Nature as she
really
is.
Maxwell's equations were refuted by Einstein himself anyway.
"It is known that Maxwell's electrodynamics--as usually understood at the
present time--when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which do
not appear to be inherent in the phenomena. "-- Einstein.
The so-called "invariance of photon velocity" doesn't exist.


  #9  
Old June 25th 07, 07:18 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,955
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE


Androcles wrote:
"Pentcho Valev" wrote:
: At least criminals in Wikipedia are straightforward - the speed of
: light is constant and that's it. Relativists like Tom Roberts and Jean-
: Marc Levy-Leblond deliberately introduce confusions and even
: plagiarize one another in the process:
:
: http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/onemorederivation.pdf
: Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond: "The evidence of the nonzero mass of the
: photon would not, as such, shake in any way the validity of the
: special relalivity. It would, however, nullify all its derivations
: which are based on the invariance of the photon velocity."
:
:
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...4dc146100e32c?
: Tom Roberts: "If it is ultimately discovered that the photon has a
: nonzero mass (i.e. light in vacuum does not travel at the invariant
: speed of the Lorentz transform), SR would be unaffected but both
: Maxwell's equations and QED would be refuted (or rather, their domains
: of applicability would be reduced)."
:
: Pentcho Valev
:
Based as they are on the sci-fi rantings of Einstein and his time machine
pseudo-mathematics, neither one advances any understanding of Nature as she
really
is.
Maxwell's equations were refuted by Einstein himself anyway.
"It is known that Maxwell's electrodynamics--as usually understood at the
present time--when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which do
not appear to be inherent in the phenomena. "-- Einstein.
The so-called "invariance of photon velocity" doesn't exist.


Einstein went even further:

http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/pdf...09145525ca.pdf
Einstein 1935: "One does not have the right today to maintain that the
foundation [of physics] must consist of a field theory in the sense of
Maxwell. The other possibility leads in my opinion to a renunciation
of the space-time continuum..." Einstein 1954: "I consider it entirely
possible that physics cannot be based upon the field concept, that is
on continuous structures. Then nothing will remain of my whole castle
in the air, including the theory of gravitation, but also nothing of
the rest of contemporary physics."

Hypnotists in Einstein criminal cult know quite well that, as far as
the deductive nature of contemporary physics is concerned, "nothing
will remain of my whole castle in the air, including the theory of
gravitation, but also nothing of the rest of contemporary physics" is
a corollary of the simple fact that the speed of light is not
independent of the relative speed of the light source and the
observer. That is the reason why they are so silent.

Pentcho Valev

  #10  
Old June 25th 07, 12:44 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.physics.cond-matter,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.astro
Androcles[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,040
Default SPECIAL RELATIVITY WITHOUT THE LIGHT POSTULATE


"Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
ups.com...
:
: Androcles wrote:
: "Pentcho Valev" wrote:
: : At least criminals in Wikipedia are straightforward - the speed of
: : light is constant and that's it. Relativists like Tom Roberts and
Jean-
: : Marc Levy-Leblond deliberately introduce confusions and even
: : plagiarize one another in the process:
: :
: : http://o.castera.free.fr/pdf/onemorederivation.pdf
: : Jean-Marc Levy-Leblond: "The evidence of the nonzero mass of the
: : photon would not, as such, shake in any way the validity of the
: : special relalivity. It would, however, nullify all its derivations
: : which are based on the invariance of the photon velocity."
: :
: :
:
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.ph...4dc146100e32c?
: : Tom Roberts: "If it is ultimately discovered that the photon has a
: : nonzero mass (i.e. light in vacuum does not travel at the invariant
: : speed of the Lorentz transform), SR would be unaffected but both
: : Maxwell's equations and QED would be refuted (or rather, their domains
: : of applicability would be reduced)."
: :
: : Pentcho Valev
: :
: Based as they are on the sci-fi rantings of Einstein and his time
machine
: pseudo-mathematics, neither one advances any understanding of Nature as
she
: really
: is.
: Maxwell's equations were refuted by Einstein himself anyway.
: "It is known that Maxwell's electrodynamics--as usually understood at
the
: present time--when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which
do
: not appear to be inherent in the phenomena. "-- Einstein.
: The so-called "invariance of photon velocity" doesn't exist.
:
: Einstein went even further:
:
:
http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/pdf...09145525ca.pdf
: Einstein 1935: "One does not have the right today to maintain that the
: foundation [of physics] must consist of a field theory in the sense of
: Maxwell. The other possibility leads in my opinion to a renunciation
: of the space-time continuum..."

Rights? Opinions? Nature doesn't give a rat's arse about Einstein's or
anyone
else's rights and opinions, that's political talk. What's the big deal if
the space-time continuum is "renounced"? So it should be, it was garbage to
begin with, much ado about nothing.



: Einstein 1954: "I consider it entirely
: possible that physics cannot be based upon the field concept, that is
: on continuous structures. Then nothing will remain of my whole castle
: in the air, including the theory of gravitation, but also nothing of
: the rest of contemporary physics."


Aww...What a shame. His whole castle in the air was a house of cards in the
aether anyway, aka vapourware.

:
: Hypnotists in Einstein criminal cult know quite well that, as far as
: the deductive nature of contemporary physics is concerned, "nothing
: will remain of my whole castle in the air, including the theory of
: gravitation, but also nothing of the rest of contemporary physics" is
: a corollary of the simple fact that the speed of light is not
: independent of the relative speed of the light source and the
: observer. That is the reason why they are so silent.
:
: Pentcho Valev

His theory of gravitation is bent spacetime anyway, isn't it?
When I see a theory that includes magnetism, a far more powerful
force than gravity, I might sit up and take notice.
http://www.supermagnete.de/eng/photo...ze_de/0496.jpg







 




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