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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?



 
 
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  #71  
Old October 13th 17, 02:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 03:03:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

When will electrics pay a road tax for maintenance and construction, or will all roads be toll roads?


Different places have different ways of collecting taxes for roads. In
many jurisdictions, electric cars already pay through registration
fees. Where gas taxes are used, no doubt other methods will be
developed.
  #72  
Old October 13th 17, 05:42 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Posts: 1,001
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Friday, 13 October 2017 15:47:14 UTC+2, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 03:03:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

When will electrics pay a road tax for maintenance and construction, or will all roads be toll roads?


Different places have different ways of collecting taxes for roads. In
many jurisdictions, electric cars already pay through registration
fees. Where gas taxes are used, no doubt other methods will be
developed.


A Danish professor is claiming the CO2 involved in the construction and transport of large car batteries in China is no better than the infernal combustion engine. The main problem is the continuing use of coal fired energy in China for vehicle and battery construction. There may well be a long time lag until the electric car overtakes the gas guzzler.

Charging the car battery using coal-fired, power stations at their eventual destination is hardly CO2 neutral either. A better [CO2] scenario is wind or solar powered recharging. Best of all, would be small scale, local, solar power charging the battery for the car owner from his own roof.

There would be no large and wasteful energy corporation and all the added costs [and extra CO2!] Particularly where they are demanding their quarterly bills be paid from whichever fuel is considered cheapest regardless of CO2 efficiency. Importing fuel for energy production, from right around the world, is hardly 'green' or CO2 neutral. It often has a green or political negative attached as some despot fells his nation's inherited forests. It's all about recognizing the full lifetime, CO2 footprint, rather than wishful thinking.

I'll just have to keep pedalling my bike until I am crushed by the weight of all awards and financial benefits from a grateful society. Why can't I sell my CO2 savings to VW diesel guzzlers? ;-)
  #73  
Old October 13th 17, 06:10 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:42:36 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 15:47:14 UTC+2, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 03:03:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

When will electrics pay a road tax for maintenance and construction, or will all roads be toll roads?


Different places have different ways of collecting taxes for roads. In
many jurisdictions, electric cars already pay through registration
fees. Where gas taxes are used, no doubt other methods will be
developed.


A Danish professor is claiming the CO2 involved in the construction and transport of large car batteries in China is no better than the infernal combustion engine. The main problem is the continuing use of coal fired energy in China for vehicle and battery construction. There may well be a long time lag until the electric car overtakes the gas guzzler.

Charging the car battery using coal-fired, power stations at their eventual destination is hardly CO2 neutral either. A better [CO2] scenario is wind or solar powered recharging. Best of all, would be small scale, local, solar power charging the battery for the car owner from his own roof.

There would be no large and wasteful energy corporation and all the added costs [and extra CO2!] Particularly where they are demanding their quarterly bills be paid from whichever fuel is considered cheapest regardless of CO2 efficiency. Importing fuel for energy production, from right around the world, is hardly 'green' or CO2 neutral. It often has a green or political negative attached as some despot fells his nation's inherited forests. It's all about recognizing the full lifetime, CO2 footprint, rather than wishful thinking.

I'll just have to keep pedalling my bike until I am crushed by the weight of all awards and financial benefits from a grateful society. Why can't I sell my CO2 savings to VW diesel guzzlers? ;-)


Also worth considering that carbon sequestration is an option for
fossil fuel powered plants, but not really for individual vehicles. We
don't need to be all non-fossil for electric vehicles to put a dent in
the carbon released into the atmosphere.
  #74  
Old October 13th 17, 07:23 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
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Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Chris L Peterson wrote in
:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:42:36 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 15:47:14 UTC+2, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 03:03:46 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:

When will electrics pay a road tax for maintenance and
construction, or will all roads be toll roads?

Different places have different ways of collecting taxes for
roads. In many jurisdictions, electric cars already pay
through registration fees. Where gas taxes are used, no doubt
other methods will be developed.


A Danish professor is claiming the CO2 involved in the
construction and transport of large car batteries in China is no
better than the infernal combustion engine. The main problem is
the continuing use of coal fired energy in China for vehicle and
battery construction. There may well be a long time lag until
the electric car overtakes the gas guzzler.

Charging the car battery using coal-fired, power stations at
their eventual destination is hardly CO2 neutral either. A
better [CO2] scenario is wind or solar powered recharging. Best
of all, would be small scale, local, solar power charging the
battery for the car owner from his own roof.

There would be no large and wasteful energy corporation and all
the added costs [and extra CO2!] Particularly where they are
demanding their quarterly bills be paid from whichever fuel is
considered cheapest regardless of CO2 efficiency. Importing fuel
for energy production, from right around the world, is hardly
'green' or CO2 neutral. It often has a green or political
negative attached as some despot fells his nation's inherited
forests. It's all about recognizing the full lifetime, CO2
footprint, rather than wishful thinking.

I'll just have to keep pedalling my bike until I am crushed by
the weight of all awards and financial benefits from a grateful
society. Why can't I sell my CO2 savings to VW diesel guzzlers?
;-)


Also worth considering that carbon sequestration is an option
for fossil fuel powered plants, but not really for individual
vehicles. We don't need to be all non-fossil for electric
vehicles to put a dent in the carbon released into the
atmosphere.

Natural gas is rather cleaner than coal (and cleaner for the energy
produced than gasoline in a car, too), too, and already is used to
generate more electricity.

Cost is a big, big issue, though, for the consumer.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #75  
Old October 13th 17, 07:30 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Posts: 2,824
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
Chris L Peterson wrote in
:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 09:42:36 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

On Friday, 13 October 2017 15:47:14 UTC+2, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 03:03:46 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:

When will electrics pay a road tax for maintenance and
construction, or will all roads be toll roads?

Different places have different ways of collecting taxes for
roads. In many jurisdictions, electric cars already pay
through registration fees. Where gas taxes are used, no doubt
other methods will be developed.

A Danish professor is claiming the CO2 involved in the
construction and transport of large car batteries in China is no
better than the infernal combustion engine. The main problem is
the continuing use of coal fired energy in China for vehicle and
battery construction. There may well be a long time lag until
the electric car overtakes the gas guzzler.

Charging the car battery using coal-fired, power stations at
their eventual destination is hardly CO2 neutral either. A
better [CO2] scenario is wind or solar powered recharging. Best
of all, would be small scale, local, solar power charging the
battery for the car owner from his own roof.

There would be no large and wasteful energy corporation and all
the added costs [and extra CO2!] Particularly where they are
demanding their quarterly bills be paid from whichever fuel is
considered cheapest regardless of CO2 efficiency. Importing fuel
for energy production, from right around the world, is hardly
'green' or CO2 neutral. It often has a green or political
negative attached as some despot fells his nation's inherited
forests. It's all about recognizing the full lifetime, CO2
footprint, rather than wishful thinking.

I'll just have to keep pedalling my bike until I am crushed by
the weight of all awards and financial benefits from a grateful
society. Why can't I sell my CO2 savings to VW diesel guzzlers?
;-)


Also worth considering that carbon sequestration is an option
for fossil fuel powered plants, but not really for individual
vehicles. We don't need to be all non-fossil for electric
vehicles to put a dent in the carbon released into the
atmosphere.

Natural gas is rather cleaner than coal (and cleaner for the energy
produced than gasoline in a car, too), too, and already is used to
generate more electricity.

Cost is a big, big issue, though, for the consumer.


It still burns to CO2 and the methane escapes during natural gas extraction
have a much stronger greenhouse effect than CO2. It’s a step forward but
not the answer.
Much better in cities than petrol and diesel.


  #76  
Old October 13th 17, 09:38 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Posts: 1,989
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Mike Collins:
[Natural gas is] Much better in cities than petrol and diesel.


The best thing for the cities would be to get automobiles out
altogether.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #77  
Old October 13th 17, 09:49 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:38:38 -0400, Davoud wrote:

Mike Collins:
[Natural gas is] Much better in cities than petrol and diesel.


The best thing for the cities would be to get automobiles out
altogether.


Self-driving electric cars might be a sensible part of a city's
transportation system, though. Especially if they are publicly owned.
That could extend the boundaries within a city where public
transportation would make sense.
  #78  
Old October 13th 17, 11:14 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,824
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Davoud wrote:
Mike Collins:
[Natural gas is] Much better in cities than petrol and diesel.


The best thing for the cities would be to get automobiles out
altogether.


And what do the buses run on while you’re building the transit systems - In
Sydney they seem to run on natural gas. Trolley buses would be a better
system but these were removed from the streets of the UK in the 1950s and
60s. I’ve only seen then in routine use in Vancouver.


  #79  
Old October 14th 17, 12:01 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Davoud wrote in :

Mike Collins:
[Natural gas is] Much better in cities than petrol and diesel.


The best thing for the cities would be to get automobiles out
altogether.

By some definitions of best, maybe. By others, likely far more
popular, "best" would involved tracking down all the extremist
whackjob enivronmentalists and rendering their bodies down into
hydrocarbon fuel.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #80  
Old October 14th 17, 12:02 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Mike Collins wrote in

rnal-september.org:

Davoud wrote:
Mike Collins:
[Natural gas is] Much better in cities than petrol and diesel.


The best thing for the cities would be to get automobiles out
altogether.


And what do the buses run on while you’re building the transit
systems - In Sydney they seem to run on natural gas. Trolley
buses would be a better system but these were removed from the
streets of the UK in the 1950s and 60s. I’ve only seen then in
routine use in Vancouver.

Perhaps he's really talking about forcing all the *people* out of
cities, too. That's as likely to happen.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

 




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