Next step in green transportation

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ble-car-market

Tesla is preparing to offer a full electric car for $35,000. Even without any tax incentives it puts that vehicle well within the average cost of a new car in America.

How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

It takes huge amounts of energy to make the steam necessary to refine crude oil into gasoline. It is mostly done by burning fossil fuels. The emissions from this process are not as heavily regulated as the emissions from grid power plants so they tend to be very dirty. Also, these refineries pull huge amounts of electrical power from the grid to simply operate. In most states where they operate, they are the second or third largest consumers of grid power. Then you burn more fuel to transport the fuel to the filling stations. Then you pull grid power 24/7 to run all of those filling stations. Then you burn the fuel at about 20-25% efficiency to drive the car producing more pollution.

When you add up all of this energy to simply produce the fuel and get it into your tank, you can simply charge and drive the EV more miles on the same amount of energy without producing any more pollution.

To put it in simpler terms, it takes about 6KWh of energy (or equivalent emissions) to produce one gallon of gasoline. A gallon of gas has about 33KWh of energy stored in it. So, for 39KWh of energy you can drive the average ICE car about 25 miles. The same amount of energy will drive an EV 120-150 miles. It is clear, by any measure, that the EV produces far less pollution per mile driven than an ICE vehicle.

boisenberry
How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

It doesn't compare at all in the USA or any other large country with a
deep infrastructure. The electric car can go a few miles per day. The
petrol-powered car can go as far as speed limits and driver fatigue
permit. 600 miles @ 65-75 mph is entirely practical. When an electric
car can do that, and when there is a standardized, nationwide charging
infrastructure, i.e., a system available in every small town, then we
can compare the electric car to the petrol car. Get back to us on that.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 4:40:01 PM UTC-6, Davoud wrote:
boisenberry
How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

It doesn't compare at all in the USA or any other large country with a
deep infrastructure. The electric car can go a few miles per day. The
petrol-powered car can go as far as speed limits and driver fatigue
permit. 600 miles @ 65-75 mph is entirely practical. When an electric
car can do that, and when there is a standardized, nationwide charging
infrastructure, i.e., a system available in every small town, then we
can compare the electric car to the petrol car. Get back to us on that.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

Your response is typical of someone who has never investigated this new technology. Tesla is just one of many electrics on the market now.

The Tesla goes 200 miles on a charge and fully charges overnight. Most people don't drive that many miles every day. I drive my electric about 20 miles per day average, it charges while I'm asleep and is fully charged ready to go every morning. Once in a while I drive up to Milwaukee, round trip about 170 miles with no issues whatsoever. It drives nicely at 70mph just like any gas car, and is roomy and comfortable.

Davoud wrote:
boisenberry
How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

It doesn't compare at all in the USA or any other large country with a
deep infrastructure. The electric car can go a few miles per day. The
petrol-powered car can go as far as speed limits and driver fatigue
permit. 600 miles @ 65-75 mph is entirely practical. When an electric
car can do that, and when there is a standardized, nationwide charging
infrastructure, i.e., a system available in every small town, then we
can compare the electric car to the petrol car. Get back to us on that.


That may be true in the USA and Canada but not in the UK.
I don't do that many trips over 200 miles. With fast charging points at
motorway services I could do most of my longer journeys with just one fast
charge during which I would be having a cup of coffee and a danish pastry.

boisenberry:
How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

Davoud:
It doesn't compare at all in the USA or any other large country with a
deep infrastructure. The electric car can go a few miles per day. The
petrol-powered car can go as far as speed limits and driver fatigue
permit. 600 miles @ 65-75 mph is entirely practical. When an electric
car can do that, and when there is a standardized, nationwide charging
infrastructure, i.e., a system available in every small town, then we
can compare the electric car to the petrol car. Get back to us on that.

boisenberry:
Your response is typical of someone who has never investigated this new
technology. Tesla is just one of many electrics on the market now.

The Tesla goes 200 miles on a charge and fully charges overnight. Most people
don't drive that many miles every day. I drive my electric about 20 miles per
day average, it charges while I'm asleep and is fully charged ready to go
every morning. Once in a while I drive up to Milwaukee, round trip about 170
miles with no issues whatsoever. It drives nicely at 70mph just like any gas car, and is roomy and comfortable.

Bzzzzt! Wrong answer. I have investigated all-electrics in detail as a
possible replacement for my Prius. Not one could take me from my home
in Eastern Maryland to visit my family in SW Pennsylvania. And if one
did get me there by chance, there would be no place to charge it. Not a
single charger in a six-county area. I stand by what I said: get back
to me *after* your electric can do 600 miles and recharge as I stated
above. I don't claim to know the solution to the petrol-engine problem,
but I don't believe for a moment it is the battery electric. Hydrogen
fuel cell, maybe.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Wednesday, 10 February 2016 16:20:28 UTC-5, boisenberry wrote:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ble-car-market

Tesla is preparing to offer a full electric car for $35,000. Even without any tax incentives it puts that vehicle well within the average cost of a new car in America.

How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

It takes huge amounts of energy to make the steam necessary to refine crude oil into gasoline. It is mostly done by burning fossil fuels. The emissions from this process are not as heavily regulated as the emissions from grid power plants so they tend to be very dirty. Also, these refineries pull huge amounts of electrical power from the grid to simply operate. In most states where they operate, they are the second or third largest consumers of grid power. Then you burn more fuel to transport the fuel to the filling stations. Then you pull grid power 24/7 to run all of those filling stations.. Then you burn the fuel at about 20-25% efficiency to drive the car producing more pollution.

When you add up all of this energy to simply produce the fuel and get it into your tank, you can simply charge and drive the EV more miles on the same amount of energy without producing any more pollution.

To put it in simpler terms, it takes about 6KWh of energy (or equivalent emissions) to produce one gallon of gasoline. A gallon of gas has about 33KWh of energy stored in it. So, for 39KWh of energy you can drive the average ICE car about 25 miles. The same amount of energy will drive an EV 120-150 miles. It is clear, by any measure, that the EV produces far less pollution per mile driven than an ICE vehicle.

Electric cars are for sissies and D.B. well-heeled hipsters who are to STUPID to really think about it.

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 8:49:41 PM UTC-6, Davoud wrote:
boisenberry:
How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

Davoud:
It doesn't compare at all in the USA or any other large country with a
deep infrastructure. The electric car can go a few miles per day. The
petrol-powered car can go as far as speed limits and driver fatigue
permit. 600 miles @ 65-75 mph is entirely practical. When an electric
car can do that, and when there is a standardized, nationwide charging
infrastructure, i.e., a system available in every small town, then we
can compare the electric car to the petrol car. Get back to us on that.

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 10:03:41 PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:
On Wednesday, 10 February 2016 16:20:28 UTC-5, boisenberry wrote:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ble-car-market

Tesla is preparing to offer a full electric car for $35,000. Even without any tax incentives it puts that vehicle well within the average cost of a new car in America.

How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

It takes huge amounts of energy to make the steam necessary to refine crude oil into gasoline. It is mostly done by burning fossil fuels. The emissions from this process are not as heavily regulated as the emissions from grid power plants so they tend to be very dirty. Also, these refineries pull huge amounts of electrical power from the grid to simply operate. In most states where they operate, they are the second or third largest consumers of grid power. Then you burn more fuel to transport the fuel to the filling stations. Then you pull grid power 24/7 to run all of those filling stations. Then you burn the fuel at about 20-25% efficiency to drive the car producing more pollution.

When you add up all of this energy to simply produce the fuel and get it into your tank, you can simply charge and drive the EV more miles on the same amount of energy without producing any more pollution.

To put it in simpler terms, it takes about 6KWh of energy (or equivalent emissions) to produce one gallon of gasoline. A gallon of gas has about 33KWh of energy stored in it. So, for 39KWh of energy you can drive the average ICE car about 25 miles. The same amount of energy will drive an EV 120-150 miles. It is clear, by any measure, that the EV produces far less pollution per mile driven than an ICE vehicle.

Electric cars are for sissies and D.B. well-heeled hipsters who are to STUPID to really think about it.

"to STUPID" .. too has 2 "o"s in it. to is for use before a verb, as in to go or to be or not to be.

On Wed, 10 Feb 2016 17:39:58 -0500, Davoud wrote:

boisenberry
How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

It doesn't compare at all in the USA or any other large country with a
deep infrastructure. The electric car can go a few miles per day. The
petrol-powered car can go as far as speed limits and driver fatigue
permit. 600 miles @ 65-75 mph is entirely practical. When an electric
car can do that, and when there is a standardized, nationwide charging
infrastructure, i.e., a system available in every small town, then we
can compare the electric car to the petrol car. Get back to us on that.

It doesn't need to be for everybody. The sort of electric cars
starting to show up are more than capable of supporting most people's
commuting and local trips, which constitutes the bulk of car use. They
are able to charge off ordinary outlets at a reduced charging rate.
Given that most people have more than one car, or can use a rental for
the occasional long trip, electrics could take a big bite out of the
conventional car market. And these cars drive additional development.
It's extremely likely that we're only a few years away from electric
cars with several hundred mile ranges and very fast charge times.

We don't need to directly compare electric cars with internal
combustion cars.

On 10/02/2016 23:43, Mike Collins wrote:
Davoud wrote:
boisenberry
How does a full electric compare to a typical gas car?

It doesn't compare at all in the USA or any other large country with a
deep infrastructure. The electric car can go a few miles per day. The
petrol-powered car can go as far as speed limits and driver fatigue
permit. 600 miles @ 65-75 mph is entirely practical. When an electric

But not advisable if you want to live to a decent age. Driving regularly
in excess of 200 miles a day on business is frowned upon in civilised
countries as employees tended to fall asleep at the wheel on the way
home and egt killed. Most motorways have warnings to the effect that
"tiredness kills" - it doesn't stop people doing it unfortunately.

car can do that, and when there is a standardized, nationwide charging
infrastructure, i.e., a system available in every small town, then we
can compare the electric car to the petrol car. Get back to us on that.


That may be true in the USA and Canada but not in the UK.
I don't do that many trips over 200 miles. With fast charging points at
motorway services I could do most of my longer journeys with just one fast
charge during which I would be having a cup of coffee and a danish pastry.

That really only works whilst electric cars are relatively uncommon. I
do worry about the effect of fast charging and then immediate heavy load
on a hot battery pack longevity though.

It is true that the UK infrastructure for electric cars is probably a
lot better than in the USA but we are a smaller country. There are even
a couple of charging points in my wife's company car park for instance.

These days with apps that will tell you the nearest ATM or Charge Point
it isn't such a big issue in the UK. Bit annoying if you try to do Lands
End to John O'Groats though - you have to plan the journey around the
available charging points (better now than when Top Gear tried it).

Live in a remote rural region and you are potentially in the same bind.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown