true colors of space

On 24/12/2011 23:12, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 18:39:58 +0000,
wrote:

I'm making no comment on what you might see at 35,000ft from an
aeroplane window, but on the ground at 14,000 ft your visual acuity will
be seriously degraded by lack of oxygen (40% less than at sea level).

Exactly my point. In fact, I've huffed at an oxygen bottle at 14,000
feet, and you can literally watch the stars brighten over a matter of
seconds, and then fade again when you go off the O2.

Even from a plane, the cabin pressure is probably adjusted to about
8000 feet, which will cause some loss of visual sensitivity to someone
not acclimated to that altitude.

Assuming it's a commercial flight, yes.

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
...
On Dec 23, 2:27 am, "Chris.B" wrote:
On Dec 23, 5:39 am, Chris L Peterson wrote:

But it doesn't help you see color.

The Orion Nebula has always looked very pale turquoise to me.
I'm only ~68.3m above sea level standing on my dedicated, astro, beer
crate.

Color doesn't seem to matter, because our entire NASA/Apollo team of
all "the right stuff",\ http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / "Guth Usenet"


Well the only time a nebula or other deep space object
should be seen by an astronaut would be when the
Sun and Moon are on the opposite side of the Earth
at the same time, and sitting in an otherwise dark
room/cabin. How often does that happen? Else they'd
be blinded by the intense glare of the Sun, the Moon
or the Earth or some combination of all three.

It's hard enough to see many deep space objects from
the ground with a full Moon, imagine how hard it would be
with a half full Earth or full ...Sun while stargazing?

I thought this was an astronomy ng?
And can anyone else here ....honestly
say they've seen the LMC from altitude?
It's a very southern object, I'm from Miami.

And in searching for quotes from space walkers and
such it seems all they look at is the very bright and
spectacular Earth and auroras.

It was naked-eye red, I swear on my mothers grave.
In fact, it was quite noticeably red, nothing faint or
questionable about the color. The sky was very dark
with no moon, well after sunset. You do know the
LMC is some 6 or 8 times the apparent size of the
full Moon right? It kinda stand out like a sore thumb
in a very dark sky.

I've spent years with my 10 inch Meade stargazing
and I was as surprised as anyone when I first looked out
the window at the southern sky and saw it's color.
I didn't think it was possible either.


Jonathan


s

On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 07:56:13 -0500, "Jonathan"
wrote:

Well the only time a nebula or other deep space object
should be seen by an astronaut would be when the
Sun and Moon are on the opposite side of the Earth
at the same time, and sitting in an otherwise dark
room/cabin. How often does that happen?

It happens for half of every orbit during periods near the new Moon.
However, the Moon poses much less interference to viewing while you
are in space. The problem it causes here on Earth is that it lights up
the atmosphere- in space, that isn't a problem. As long as some part
of the ISS is blocking the Moon from your direct view, it isn't going
to have much impact on your ability to see DSOs.

I thought this was an astronomy ng?
And can anyone else here ....honestly
say they've seen the LMC from altitude?
It's a very southern object, I'm from Miami.

I've seen it from low altitude in Australia, from 8,000 feet in Peru,
and from over 12,000 feet in Chile. It looked the same in all cases-
like a little (gray) fragment of the Milky Way that got detached.

It was naked-eye red, I swear on my mothers grave.

I don't doubt it. But the red was caused by something else, either in
your visual system or in your local environment. You weren't seeing
the natural color of the LMC.

The LMC and the Milky Way are the same surface brightness, and the
same color. If you saw the LMC as red, you should have been seeing the
entire Milky Way look the same!

On Dec 25, 7:22*am, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 07:56:13 -0500, "Jonathan"
wrote:

Well the only time a nebula or other deep space object
should be seen by an astronaut would be when the
Sun and Moon are on the opposite side of the Earth
at the same time, and sitting in an otherwise dark
room/cabin. How often does that happen?

It happens for half of every orbit during periods near the new Moon.
However, the Moon poses much less interference to viewing while you
are in space. The problem it causes here on Earth is that it lights up
the atmosphere- in space, that isn't a problem. As long as some part
of the ISS is blocking the Moon from your direct view, it isn't going
to have much impact on your ability to see DSOs.

I thought this was an astronomy ng?
And can anyone else here ....honestly
say they've seen the LMC from altitude?
It's a very southern object, I'm from Miami.

I've seen it from low altitude in Australia, from 8,000 feet in Peru,
and from over 12,000 feet in Chile. It looked the same in all cases-
like a little (gray) fragment of the Milky Way that got detached.

It was naked-eye red, I swear on my mothers grave.

I don't doubt it. But the red was caused by something else, either in
your visual system or in your local environment. You weren't seeing
the natural color of the LMC.

The LMC and the Milky Way are the same surface brightness, and the
same color. If you saw the LMC as red, you should have been seeing the
entire Milky Way look the same!

A newly formed white dwarf or neutron star (from the sudden demise of
a red supergiant like Betelgeuse that's only 650 ly from us) should do
a perfectly fine job of illuminating the LMC that's only 160,000 ly
from us.

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On 12/25/11 2:17 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
A newly formed white dwarf or neutron star (from the sudden demise of
a red supergiant like Betelgeuse that's only 650 ly from us) should do
a perfectly fine job of illuminating the LMC that's only 160,000 ly
from us.

Brad--Show us your calculations the
1) the illumination at the LMC from a Supernova in the Milky Way
2) the reflection coefficient of the LMC

On Dec 25, 12:25*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 12/25/11 2:17 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

A newly formed white dwarf or neutron star (from the sudden demise of
a red supergiant like Betelgeuse that's only 650 ly from us) should do
a perfectly fine job of illuminating the LMC that's only 160,000 ly
from us.

* *Brad--Show us your calculations the
* *1) the illumination at the LMC from a Supernova in the Milky Way
* *2) the reflection coefficient of the LMC

ionized gas doesn't reflect, it instead gives off photons from the
secondary/recoil of being hit or nailed by UV, X-rays and gamma.

Are you suggesting that the demise of stars do not give off UV, X-rays
or gamma?

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Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

On 12/25/11 2:32 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Dec 25, 12:25 pm, Sam wrote:
On 12/25/11 2:17 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

A newly formed white dwarf or neutron star (from the sudden demise of
a red supergiant like Betelgeuse that's only 650 ly from us) should do
a perfectly fine job of illuminating the LMC that's only 160,000 ly
from us.

Brad--Show us your calculations the
1) the illumination at the LMC from a Supernova in the Milky Way
2) the reflection coefficient of the LMC
ionized gas doesn't reflect, it instead gives off photons from the
secondary/recoil of being hit or nailed by UV, X-rays and gamma.

Well then show us your calculation for re-radiation at the LMC.

On Dec 25, 12:47*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 12/25/11 2:32 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

On Dec 25, 12:25 pm, Sam *wrote:
*On 12/25/11 2:17 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

* *A newly formed white dwarf or neutron star (from the sudden demise of
* *a red supergiant like Betelgeuse that's only 650 ly from us) should do
* *a perfectly fine job of illuminating the LMC that's only 160,000 ly
* *from us.

* * *Brad--Show us your calculations the
* * *1) the illumination at the LMC from a Supernova in the Milky Way
* * *2) the reflection coefficient of the LMC
ionized gas doesn't reflect, it instead gives off photons from the
secondary/recoil of being hit or nailed by UV, X-rays and gamma.

* *Well then show us your calculation for re-radiation at the LMC.

It obviously varies, and the spectrum of that intense radiation
obviously varies, similar to when those nearby Sirius stars got
created from a horrific molecular/nebula cloud that probably
surrounded our solar system, and then again when at least one of them
terrific stars sequenced out by having turned into a white dwarf,
which probably did a fine job of illuminating us. Nova/supernova
events happen all the time, as well as the demise of stars turning
themselves into the likes of neutron or white dwarfs isn't exactly
uncommon or unexpected.

Are you suggesting that nothing could possibly illuminate or interact
with the molecular gas of the LMC to cause photons to be given off?

http://asterisk.apod.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=24482
http://cs.astronomy.com/asycs/media/p/479416.aspx
http://www.spacepictures.org/display...185&fullsize=1

Looks kind of reddish to me, and its not all that demanding of an
exposure to have recorded on film or via CCD.

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"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 07:56:13 -0500, "Jonathan"
wrote:

Well the only time a nebula or other deep space object
should be seen by an astronaut would be when the
Sun and Moon are on the opposite side of the Earth
at the same time, and sitting in an otherwise dark
room/cabin. How often does that happen?


It happens for half of every orbit during periods near the new Moon.

And just about all the ISS pictures I've seen is busy looking
at the auroras and night lights. Have you seen this great
video from the ISS?

http://news.discovery.com/space/big-...on-111114.html


However, the Moon poses much less interference to viewing while you
are in space. The problem it causes here on Earth is that it lights up
the atmosphere- in space, that isn't a problem. As long as some part
of the ISS is blocking the Moon from your direct view, it isn't going
to have much impact on your ability to see DSOs.

I thought this was an astronomy ng?
And can anyone else here ....honestly
say they've seen the LMC from altitude?
It's a very southern object, I'm from Miami.

I've seen it from low altitude in Australia, from 8,000 feet in Peru,
and from over 12,000 feet in Chile. It looked the same in all cases-
like a little (gray) fragment of the Milky Way that got detached.

It was naked-eye red, I swear on my mothers grave.

I don't doubt it. But the red was caused by something else, either in
your visual system or in your local environment. You weren't seeing
the natural color of the LMC.


When you say 'natural' color what are you talking about?

I was saying the naked-eye color of the LMC at 35,000 feet is red.
The conditions would vary from the ground to orbit wrt how light
is scattered. So how we would see it, it's 'natural' color, would
also vary.



The LMC and the Milky Way are the same surface brightness, and the
same color. If you saw the LMC as red, you should have been seeing the
entire Milky Way look the same!


My field of view out the little window was pretty restricted.
I wanted to ask the person in front of me to look too as
a sanity check, but she was asleep. I was afraid she'd get
ticked off, and it'd turn into that Shatner episode on Twilight
Zone.

What was surprising was just how obvious the color was, I only
had to look for a couple of seconds before my jaw dropped.


s

On Dec 25, 6:04*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"Chris L Peterson" wrote in messagenews:m0fef7petr7deurf2kj8vjic7mb14fqans@4ax .com...

On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 07:56:13 -0500, "Jonathan"
wrote:

Well the only time a nebula or other deep space object
should be seen by an astronaut would be when the
Sun and Moon are on the opposite side of the Earth
at the same time, and sitting in an otherwise dark
room/cabin. How often does that happen?

It happens for half of every orbit during periods near the new Moon.

And just about all the ISS pictures I've seen is busy looking
at the auroras and night lights. Have you seen this great
video from the ISS?

http://news.discovery.com/space/big-...-high-definiti...









However, the Moon poses much less interference to viewing while you
are in space. The problem it causes here on Earth is that it lights up
the atmosphere- in space, that isn't a problem. As long as some part
of the ISS is blocking the Moon from your direct view, it isn't going
to have much impact on your ability to see DSOs.

I thought this was an astronomy ng?
And can anyone else here ....honestly
say they've seen the LMC from altitude?
It's a very southern object, I'm from Miami.

I've seen it from low altitude in Australia, from 8,000 feet in Peru,
and from over 12,000 feet in Chile. It looked the same in all cases-
like a little (gray) fragment of the Milky Way that got detached.

It was naked-eye red, I swear on my mothers grave.

I don't doubt it. But the red was caused by something else, either in
your visual system or in your local environment. You weren't seeing
the natural color of the LMC.

When you say 'natural' color what are you talking about?

I was saying the naked-eye color of the LMC at 35,000 feet is red.
The conditions would vary from the ground to orbit wrt how light
is scattered. So how we would see it, it's 'natural' color, would
also vary.



The LMC and the Milky Way are the same surface brightness, and the
same color. If you saw the LMC as red, you should have been seeing the
entire Milky Way look the same!

My field of view out the little window was pretty restricted.
I wanted to ask the person in front of me to look too as
a sanity check, but she was asleep. I was afraid she'd get
ticked off, and it'd turn into that Shatner episode on Twilight
Zone.

What was surprising was just how obvious the color was, I only
had to look for a couple of seconds before my jaw dropped.

s

It could have had some coloration contributed from the dual window
that's probably filled with argon or perhaps xenon gas. The type and
age of aircraft would tell us something about those windows.

What else is a bit further out or even between that LMC and us?

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