Response to Dwight

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct" Newton

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

With actual images in front of you,it is almost impossible to miss
where Newton's approach to and resolution of retrogrades is wrong and
no center of learning,however respected, can alter that.I have no
allegiance to the empirical cult which grew up around Newton so as far
as I am concerned,whatever effects it has in the institutional
community,I have no stake in the matter and trying to shoot the
messenger is hardly a response.

Hi
I'm still trying to figure out what your point is. What Newton said
was correct,

That's the problem,Newton's view of retrograde motion and how that
apparent motionis resolved is incorrect -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct" Newton

It has no precedence in heliocentric reasoning for retrograde motion
is an apparent backward motion of a planet which is resolved by the
actual motion of the Earth overtaking the outer planets -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

There are instances where the human mind cannot process observations
even when resolutions are staring people in the face ,the variance
between the original Copernican approach where the motion of the Earth
is inferred in resolving retorgrades and Newton's silly view based on
a hypothetical observer on the Sun.Even the added weight of explaining
the daily cycle using observation from an axially moving Earth does
not appear to alter the 'hypothetical observer on the Sun' view of
Newton but such deficiencies lie outside my ability to explain why
people choose the false view.




as shown from the web page you pointed to. I see no contrdiction in
what he said.
I'm also trying to figure out why the choice of measuring time
relative to the
seasons is wrong. Most all human activity is tied to the seasons.
I've read many of your post and all I seem to see is "they were
wrong" and
nothing to state what is right.

I do not dwell on who is wrong but prefer to show how the Earth
behaves as it orbits the Sun drawn from actual observations of another
planet,in this case Uranus -

http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/arc...99/11/video/b/

Axial rotation is one thing while the change in the Equatorial
orientation of the ring with respect to the Sun is an orbital
component.It means that there is a 360 degree orbital component which
the axial rotation of the Earth tends to disguise while the unique
rotational orientation of Uranus along with the Equatorial ring
exposes the new orbital component wonderfully.This replaces the
pseudo-dynamic of variable axial/equatorial tilt which was first
proposed by Copernicus to explain the seasons -

"..the equator and the earth's axis must be understood to have a
variable inclination. For if they stayed at a constant angle, and were
affected exclusively by the motion of the center, no inequality of
days and nights would be observed." Copernicus Chapter 11 De
Revolutionibus



I know why we have seasons. I know why siderial time is different. I
know why
there are leap seconds. I know why what Newton said is correct.
What is your story?
Dwight

I have no idea why you choose to believe in things which have no basis
in direct observations and especially in this era when it is possible
to look down at the Earth from space or learn lessons from time lapse
footage of the other planets.I know you cannot show me what the
motions of the planets look like from the Sun to resolve retrogrades
while at the same time explaining the daily cycle of the Earth,that
alone is enough to demonstrate why the majority of people no longer
know that the Earth orbits the Sun let alone be familiar with the
reasoning behind heliocentric motion.

Not a single person here supports the reasoning of Copernicus and
surely this accounts for the dismal situation 500 years later where
the majority of people now beleive the Sun orbits the Earth -

http://www.maniacworld.com/pitiful-a...game-show.html

You all now,unfortunately,have the same look as the contestant on the
game show,oblivious to the Copernican reasoning behind the acceptance
of the Earth's orbital motion by people like Kepler and Galileo.I
would dearly love for one of the major institutions to move towards a
more stable position of astronomers but so far I have yet to see the
required aptitude to acknowledge what is correct from what is not.

On Jul 8, 5:10*pm, oriel36 wrote:
---snip---

*I know why we have seasons. I know why siderial time is different. I
know why
there are leap seconds. I know why what Newton said is correct.
*What is your story?
Dwight

I have no idea why you choose to believe in things which have no basis
in direct observations and especially in this era when it is possible
to look down at the Earth from space or learn lessons from time lapse
footage of the other planets.I know you cannot show me what the
motions of the planets look like from the Sun to resolve retrogrades
while at the same time explaining the daily cycle of the Earth,that
alone is enough to demonstrate why the majority of people no longer
know that the Earth orbits the Sun let alone be familiar with the
reasoning behind heliocentric motion.



Hi
I observe things at different levels. What I know and what I observe
my at times seem to conflict but I do know that the earth orbits
the sun and that the seasons are the result of the axis tilt relative
to the orbit. I also know that the seasons are not balanced because
the orbit is not circular.
When sailing, there is a thing called apparent wind. It is the
direction
that a flag will point caused by the air over it. To a person on the
boat,
it is real wind but relative to the Earth, it is not real. It is
created by
the motion of the boat. Even the speed of the boat as measured
by the speedometer is not the speed relative to the Earth. The
water it self may be moving relative to the Earth.
All these things are things that one must be aware of while sailing
the
boat but I still observe the wind in my face.
Taking all that I observe and all that I know, I still see the sun
rise
in the morning. It is not a mistake, it is a point of reference.
It is a useful reference on dealing with the daily duties. It would
not
be useful on a trip to Mars, just as the apparent wind felt on the
boat is not useful in determining the exact direction to take on
the sail boat. It is still useful on a hot day.
Dwight

wrote:
I observe things at different levels.

Do you ever observe those poor ragged people muttering to themselves on
the streets downtown? If so, do you stop to argue with them? Just
because this guy has access to computer doesn't make him any less crazy.
And arguing with him seems to me to be nearly as crazy as he is. :-)

On Jul 9, 5:44*pm, " wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:10*pm, oriel36 wrote:
---snip---







*I know why we have seasons. I know why siderial time is different. I
know why
there are leap seconds. I know why what Newton said is correct.
*What is your story?
Dwight

I have no idea why you choose to believe in things which have no basis
in direct observations and especially in this era when it is possible
to look down at the Earth from space or learn lessons from time lapse
footage of the other planets.I know you cannot show me what the
motions of the planets look like from the Sun to resolve retrogrades
while at the same time explaining the daily cycle of the Earth,that
alone is enough to demonstrate why the majority of people no longer
know that the Earth orbits the Sun let alone be familiar with the
reasoning behind heliocentric motion.

Hi
*I observe things at different levels. What I know and what I observe
my at times seem to conflict but I do know that the earth orbits
the sun and that the seasons are the result of the axis tilt relative
to the orbit. I also know that the seasons are not balanced because
the orbit is not circular.
*When sailing, there is a thing called apparent wind. It is the
direction
that a flag will point caused by the air over it. To a person on the
boat,
it is real wind but relative to the Earth, it is not real. It is
created by
the motion of the boat. Even the speed of the boat as measured
by the speedometer is not the speed relative to the Earth. The
water it self may be moving relative to the Earth.
*All these things are things that one must be aware of while sailing
the
boat but I still observe the wind in my face.
*Taking all that I observe and all that I know, I still see the sun
rise
in the morning. It is not a mistake, it is a point of reference.
It is a useful reference on dealing with the daily duties. It would
not
be useful on a trip to Mars, just as the apparent wind felt on the
boat is not useful in determining the exact direction to take on
the sail boat. It is still useful on a hot day.
Dwight- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am delighted to be in the same boat as Starlord and especially in
the effort to bring astronomy to ordinary people and while it is
unfortunate that the other participants have joined you at your
level,at least now they know it.

On Jul 9, 8:29*pm, Greg Crinklaw wrote:
wrote:
*I observe things at different levels.

Do you ever observe those poor ragged people muttering to themselves on
the streets downtown? *If so, do you stop to argue with them? *Just
because this guy has access to computer doesn't make him any less crazy.
* And arguing with him seems to me to be nearly as crazy as he is. :-)

It is fine Greg,all I see in your response is the inability to find
Newton wrong in respect to the most important Western insight based on
apparent retrograde motion of the planets -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun
they are always seen direct" Newton

I do not question people's mental condition ,I prefer to believe that
it is just unfamiliarity with the actual reasoning based on an
orbitally moving Earth overtaking the planets hence heliocentric
reasoning for orbital motion leaving axial rotation to explain the
daily cycle -

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ima...2000_tezel.gif

I have nothing to gain by attacking anyone here but I am delighted to
see that you have found an ally in the same person who attacked
Starlord,the funny thing about it is that he is helping my position in
isolating you as one and the same type,so much for being clever !.