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Can DirectTV-type satellite dishes be used for SETI?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 19th 05, 10:17 AM
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Default Can DirectTV-type satellite dishes be used for SETI?

I was interested to read this on the Seti League web site:

__________________________________________________ ________
Parasitic SETI
Dear Dr. SETI:
As a Satellite dish owner and a strong interest in SETI, I was
wondering if anything is available to allow the home satellite dish
owner to 'search' when he is not watching TV. I do a bit of programing
and would love to help make it so home dish owners could do this. Is it
possible? What would it take? Does the dish have to follow a spot or
can it sweep the sky from a fixed position? If this is possible it
could add a million listeners to the system.

Bill T.

The Doctor Responds:
Absolutely, Bill! Parasitic SETI with a home satellite TV dish is not
only feasilble, it's widely practiced. A second feedhorn and preamp
assembly are mounted next to the C-band horn/LNB at the apex of the
dish (see Figure 2 of this article). This assembly feeds the rest of a
SETI system (see our online Tech Manual). You can then sweep out the
sky, as described here. And yes, a million participants would be nice,
but our goal is a more modest 5000 stations.
__________________________________________________ ________
http://www.setileague.org/askdr/parasite.htm

I believe they are referring to the 6 ft. backyard type antennas,
judging from the linked images on the page. But could the roof mounted
DirectTV and Dish Network type antennas be used for SETI?
The mentioned extra equipment are an extra feedhorn and a
preamplifier. The feedhorn can made cheaply but the preamp seems
expensive. If these preamps were mass produced for this purpose could
their per item cost be brought under $50?
I'm envisionig a government agency such as NSF, or a scientically
interested billionaire, paying satellite TV companies to attach this
extra equipment to their satellite dishes. Say $100 million is
earmarked for the program. Then you would want the extra cost to be
under $100 for each dish for say 1,000,000 subscribers. Judging from
the diagram in the online Tech Manual linked to on the page, the other
equipment should be doable by the equipment that comes with the
satellite TV system. Computer processing would be done separately at a
central location.
If you had a 1,000,000 of these .5 meter wide antennas it would have
the detection sensitivy of a single antenna 500 meters wide.
Bob Clark

  #2  
Old January 19th 05, 01:07 PM
Scott
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Default

Now I'm confused. The thread title asks about DirecTV dishes, then in
the post it is mentioned about sweeping the dish across the sky and the
answerer mentions C Band. DirecTV dishes ordinarily are not set up to
"sweep" across the sky, nor are they operating at C Band. So, is
anybody using DirecTV dishes for SETI work? If old C Band stuff can be
used for SETI listening, that would be great since (at least around me)
there are many old C Band setups unused in yards these days. Many could
probably be had for free to anyone who would be willing to removed the
big old ugly beasts from back yards.

Scott
N0EDV

wrote:
I was interested to read this on the Seti League web site:

__________________________________________________ ________
Parasitic SETI
Dear Dr. SETI:
As a Satellite dish owner and a strong interest in SETI, I was
wondering if anything is available to allow the home satellite dish
owner to 'search' when he is not watching TV. I do a bit of programing
and would love to help make it so home dish owners could do this. Is it
possible? What would it take? Does the dish have to follow a spot or
can it sweep the sky from a fixed position? If this is possible it
could add a million listeners to the system.

Bill T.

The Doctor Responds:
Absolutely, Bill! Parasitic SETI with a home satellite TV dish is not
only feasilble, it's widely practiced. A second feedhorn and preamp
assembly are mounted next to the C-band horn/LNB at the apex of the
dish (see Figure 2 of this article). This assembly feeds the rest of a
SETI system (see our online Tech Manual). You can then sweep out the
sky, as described here. And yes, a million participants would be nice,
but our goal is a more modest 5000 stations.
__________________________________________________ ________
http://www.setileague.org/askdr/parasite.htm

I believe they are referring to the 6 ft. backyard type antennas,
judging from the linked images on the page. But could the roof mounted
DirectTV and Dish Network type antennas be used for SETI?
The mentioned extra equipment are an extra feedhorn and a
preamplifier. The feedhorn can made cheaply but the preamp seems
expensive. If these preamps were mass produced for this purpose could
their per item cost be brought under $50?
I'm envisionig a government agency such as NSF, or a scientically
interested billionaire, paying satellite TV companies to attach this
extra equipment to their satellite dishes. Say $100 million is
earmarked for the program. Then you would want the extra cost to be
under $100 for each dish for say 1,000,000 subscribers. Judging from
the diagram in the online Tech Manual linked to on the page, the other
equipment should be doable by the equipment that comes with the
satellite TV system. Computer processing would be done separately at a
central location.
If you had a 1,000,000 of these .5 meter wide antennas it would have
the detection sensitivy of a single antenna 500 meters wide.
Bob Clark

  #3  
Old January 19th 05, 02:19 PM
Mark Dunn
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Posts: n/a
Default

Somebody's having a laugh, surely? A satellite dish is about a million times
smaller.
"Scott" wrote in message
...
Now I'm confused. The thread title asks about DirecTV dishes, then in
the post it is mentioned about sweeping the dish across the sky and the
answerer mentions C Band. DirecTV dishes ordinarily are not set up to
"sweep" across the sky, nor are they operating at C Band. So, is
anybody using DirecTV dishes for SETI work? If old C Band stuff can be
used for SETI listening, that would be great since (at least around me)
there are many old C Band setups unused in yards these days. Many could
probably be had for free to anyone who would be willing to removed the
big old ugly beasts from back yards.

Scott
N0EDV

wrote:
I was interested to read this on the Seti League web site:

__________________________________________________ ________
Parasitic SETI
Dear Dr. SETI:
As a Satellite dish owner and a strong interest in SETI, I was
wondering if anything is available to allow the home satellite dish
owner to 'search' when he is not watching TV. I do a bit of programing
and would love to help make it so home dish owners could do this. Is it
possible? What would it take? Does the dish have to follow a spot or
can it sweep the sky from a fixed position? If this is possible it
could add a million listeners to the system.

Bill T.

The Doctor Responds:
Absolutely, Bill! Parasitic SETI with a home satellite TV dish is not
only feasilble, it's widely practiced. A second feedhorn and preamp
assembly are mounted next to the C-band horn/LNB at the apex of the
dish (see Figure 2 of this article). This assembly feeds the rest of a
SETI system (see our online Tech Manual). You can then sweep out the
sky, as described here. And yes, a million participants would be nice,
but our goal is a more modest 5000 stations.
__________________________________________________ ________
http://www.setileague.org/askdr/parasite.htm

I believe they are referring to the 6 ft. backyard type antennas,
judging from the linked images on the page. But could the roof mounted
DirectTV and Dish Network type antennas be used for SETI?
The mentioned extra equipment are an extra feedhorn and a
preamplifier. The feedhorn can made cheaply but the preamp seems
expensive. If these preamps were mass produced for this purpose could
their per item cost be brought under $50?
I'm envisionig a government agency such as NSF, or a scientically
interested billionaire, paying satellite TV companies to attach this
extra equipment to their satellite dishes. Say $100 million is
earmarked for the program. Then you would want the extra cost to be
under $100 for each dish for say 1,000,000 subscribers. Judging from
the diagram in the online Tech Manual linked to on the page, the other
equipment should be doable by the equipment that comes with the
satellite TV system. Computer processing would be done separately at a
central location.
If you had a 1,000,000 of these .5 meter wide antennas it would have
the detection sensitivy of a single antenna 500 meters wide.
Bob Clark



  #4  
Old January 19th 05, 03:16 PM
Androcles
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
oups.com...
I was interested to read this on the Seti League web site:

__________________________________________________ ________
Parasitic SETI
Dear Dr. SETI:
As a Satellite dish owner and a strong interest in SETI, I was
wondering if anything is available to allow the home satellite dish
owner to 'search' when he is not watching TV. I do a bit of programing
and would love to help make it so home dish owners could do this. Is
it
possible? What would it take? Does the dish have to follow a spot or
can it sweep the sky from a fixed position? If this is possible it
could add a million listeners to the system.

Bill T.

The Doctor Responds:
Absolutely, Bill! Parasitic SETI with a home satellite TV dish is not
only feasilble, it's widely practiced. A second feedhorn and preamp
assembly are mounted next to the C-band horn/LNB at the apex of the
dish (see Figure 2 of this article). This assembly feeds the rest of a
SETI system (see our online Tech Manual). You can then sweep out the
sky, as described here. And yes, a million participants would be nice,
but our goal is a more modest 5000 stations.
__________________________________________________ ________
http://www.setileague.org/askdr/parasite.htm

I believe they are referring to the 6 ft. backyard type antennas,
judging from the linked images on the page. But could the roof mounted
DirectTV and Dish Network type antennas be used for SETI?
The mentioned extra equipment are an extra feedhorn and a
preamplifier. The feedhorn can made cheaply but the preamp seems
expensive. If these preamps were mass produced for this purpose could
their per item cost be brought under $50?
I'm envisionig a government agency such as NSF, or a scientically
interested billionaire, paying satellite TV companies to attach this
extra equipment to their satellite dishes. Say $100 million is
earmarked for the program. Then you would want the extra cost to be
under $100 for each dish for say 1,000,000 subscribers. Judging from
the diagram in the online Tech Manual linked to on the page, the other
equipment should be doable by the equipment that comes with the
satellite TV system. Computer processing would be done separately at a
central location.
If you had a 1,000,000 of these .5 meter wide antennas it would have
the detection sensitivy of a single antenna 500 meters wide.
Bob Clark


Since it is quite clear that a dish is used for highly directional
communication,
and SETII stands for Search for Extra Terrestrial INTELLIGENCE by
IDIOTS....


Androcles.




  #5  
Old January 19th 05, 03:17 PM
Alfred A. Aburto Jr.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
I was interested to read this on the Seti League web site:

__________________________________________________ ________
Parasitic SETI
Dear Dr. SETI:
As a Satellite dish owner and a strong interest in SETI, I was
wondering if anything is available to allow the home satellite dish
owner to 'search' when he is not watching TV. I do a bit of programing
and would love to help make it so home dish owners could do this. Is it
possible? What would it take? Does the dish have to follow a spot or
can it sweep the sky from a fixed position? If this is possible it
could add a million listeners to the system.

Bill T.

The Doctor Responds:
Absolutely, Bill! Parasitic SETI with a home satellite TV dish is not
only feasilble, it's widely practiced. A second feedhorn and preamp
assembly are mounted next to the C-band horn/LNB at the apex of the
dish (see Figure 2 of this article). This assembly feeds the rest of a
SETI system (see our online Tech Manual). You can then sweep out the
sky, as described here. And yes, a million participants would be nice,
but our goal is a more modest 5000 stations.
__________________________________________________ ________
http://www.setileague.org/askdr/parasite.htm

I believe they are referring to the 6 ft. backyard type antennas,
judging from the linked images on the page. But could the roof mounted
DirectTV and Dish Network type antennas be used for SETI?


Sure, they'd work. The dishes are smaller (1 ft diameter or so) but the
same principles apply as for the larger dishes (8-12 ft).

The only thing is that you'd need to work at much higher frequencies.
You'd need to do SETI at the 12GHz band.
Al

The mentioned extra equipment are an extra feedhorn and a
preamplifier. The feedhorn can made cheaply but the preamp seems
expensive. If these preamps were mass produced for this purpose could
their per item cost be brought under $50?
I'm envisionig a government agency such as NSF, or a scientically
interested billionaire, paying satellite TV companies to attach this
extra equipment to their satellite dishes. Say $100 million is
earmarked for the program. Then you would want the extra cost to be
under $100 for each dish for say 1,000,000 subscribers. Judging from
the diagram in the online Tech Manual linked to on the page, the other
equipment should be doable by the equipment that comes with the
satellite TV system. Computer processing would be done separately at a
central location.
If you had a 1,000,000 of these .5 meter wide antennas it would have
the detection sensitivy of a single antenna 500 meters wide.
Bob Clark

  #7  
Old January 19th 05, 05:11 PM
k3ym4st3r
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Posts: n/a
Default

a question, in order to use all the "civilian" dishes as an array they
should be placed in a predetermined shape right?

  #8  
Old January 19th 05, 05:19 PM
Aso Merapi
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I believe they are referring to the 6 ft. backyard type antennas,
judging from the linked images on the page. But could the roof mounted
DirectTV and Dish Network type antennas be used for SETI?


Sure, they'd work. The dishes are smaller (1 ft diameter or so) but the
same principles apply as for the larger dishes (8-12 ft).

The only thing is that you'd need to work at much higher frequencies.
You'd need to do SETI at the 12GHz band.
Al


only problem is the signal loss, the 1/(d^2) loss from alien planet to Earth
assuming you keep your antenna directly pointed at his for at least 15
min(rather difficult since neither know where the other is).

If he is 20 light years away, or about 1 E+13 miles away the signal loss is
about -400 dB (at C band)
What this means is that the alien will have to convert a small moon
completely into microwave energy pointed towards earth.
I doubt the aliens could get funding to do it, because they would have to
choose a direction to aim their 1/10 degree beam too.
Listening is the low cost EZ part.
If SETI was really serious they would be building a huge microwave
transmitter.


  #9  
Old January 19th 05, 05:23 PM
Aso Merapi
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Posts: n/a
Default


"k3ym4st3r" wrote in message
oups.com...
a question, in order to use all the "civilian" dishes as an array they
should be placed in a predetermined shape right?


no they have to be phased though.
So the received signal adds in phase from all the dishes.
That is what the big arrays do.


  #10  
Old January 19th 05, 05:48 PM
Martin Brown
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Default

k3ym4st3r wrote:

a question, in order to use all the "civilian" dishes as an array they
should be placed in a predetermined shape right?


You can choose your shape and suffer the resulting sidelobes.

But you do have to determine and compensate for the baseline geometry to
within fractions of a wavelength. All the signals from the target must
add in phase if you are to get any benefit from using multiple aerials.
This is non trivial if you want to track a celestial object across the sky.

A large phased array at low frequencies discovered the first pulsar. You
will need a few acres of toy dishes dedicated to the task to stand any
chance at all. Try the sun and Jupiter instead - you should see them OK.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 




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