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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 2nd 17, 11:11 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT), StarDust
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.


Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair
(although like all electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more
mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do
with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will
be electric.


Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software involved to make the them thing running.
I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees too!
One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide!
EV cars still have some way to go!


Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial repairs
require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal
with everything is pretty much a thing of the past.
  #12  
Old October 3rd 17, 12:35 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 732
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair
(although like all electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more
mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do
with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will
be electric.


Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software involved to make the them thing running.
I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees too!
One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide!
EV cars still have some way to go!


Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial repairs
require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal
with everything is pretty much a thing of the past.


Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars, Japanese cars etc...
Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even me!
I have an old BMW, never take it to dealer, cost is way high!
One time an 80 amp fuse went out, dealer parts dep. wanted $40 for it and would've had wait a week for it.
Bought one on Ebay, OEM part for $2. Ordered it Friday, it was here Monday!

  #13  
Old October 3rd 17, 04:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

StarDust wrote in
:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think
there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier
to repair (although like all electronics, these days that
essentially means board swaps). When there are enough
electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal
with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline
vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will
be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software
involved to make the them thing running. I talk to mechanics,
even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very
expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy said - he
spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars
still have some way to go!


Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial
repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner
mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much a thing of
the past.


Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars,
Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can
do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,


They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #14  
Old October 3rd 17, 05:53 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 732
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think
there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier
to repair (although like all electronics, these days that
essentially means board swaps). When there are enough
electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal
with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline
vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will
be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software
involved to make the them thing running. I talk to mechanics,
even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very
expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy said - he
spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars
still have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial
repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner
mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much a thing of
the past.


Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars,
Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can
do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,


They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss watch!
What's wrong with that?
  #15  
Old October 3rd 17, 06:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

StarDust wrote in
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think
there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore
easier to repair (although like all electronics, these
days that essentially means board swaps). When there are
enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who
can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do
with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on
the road will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software
involved to make the them thing running. I talk to
mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment
is very expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy
said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation
wide! EV cars still have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more than
trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your
corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much
a thing of the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars,
Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone
can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,


They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss
watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half decades.
In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any competent
mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had the right
manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that
point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally
necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all cars with the
same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without
tens (or more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized
hardware and software - and it's different hardware and software
for different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a
mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing of a
dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And
most carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but a
dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology. Japanese
and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now, keys that have
a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary
componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't* run without
it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system,
their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in
the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the
same thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work
regardless of the battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is
that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and nobody could
reverse engineer them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or
Japanese car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if
you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like
$30). And that doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which
require a specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip
programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #16  
Old October 3rd 17, 10:34 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 732
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think
there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore
easier to repair (although like all electronics, these
days that essentially means board swaps). When there are
enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who
can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do
with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on
the road will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software
involved to make the them thing running. I talk to
mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment
is very expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy
said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation
wide! EV cars still have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more than
trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your
corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much
a thing of the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars,
Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone
can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss
watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half decades.
In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any competent
mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had the right
manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that
point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally
necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all cars with the
same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without
tens (or more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized
hardware and software - and it's different hardware and software
for different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a
mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing of a
dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And
most carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but a
dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology. Japanese
and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now, keys that have
a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary
componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't* run without
it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system,
their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in
the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the
same thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work
regardless of the battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is
that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and nobody could
reverse engineer them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or
Japanese car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if
you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like
$30). And that doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which
require a specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip
programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after.
Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600!
LOLOLOLOLOL!
Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o:
  #17  
Old October 3rd 17, 10:51 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

StarDust wrote in
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think
there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore
easier to repair (although like all electronics, these
days that essentially means board swaps). When there
are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics
who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to
do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the
cars on the road will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and
software involved to make the them thing running. I talk
to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic
equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees
too! One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate
parts nation wide! EV cars still have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more than
trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your
corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty
much a thing of the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars,
Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone
can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a
Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half
decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any
competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had
the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper
at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not
generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all
cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose
what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of dollars
worth of specialized hardware and software - and it's different
hardware and software for different manufacturers. It's not
longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they
have the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't support
multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that
equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can get away
with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology.
Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now,
keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a
necessary componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't*
run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a
radio based system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine
was built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted with a
chip in the key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that
the ignition key would work regardless of the battery status in
the remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost
over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to
compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the
chip key will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your
local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that
doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a
specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel
injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for
$80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after. Some
one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has
to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be
installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 +
flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL!
Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and is
unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer possible
to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all critical
functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to *run* the
engine, once it's started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now, because it
was far more cost effective than repairing my 17 year old Mercedes,
and because I'm not inclined to deal with a car that needs regular
reapirs, as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes
rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better
car than I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get
over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra
expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #18  
Old October 4th 17, 12:12 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 732
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think
there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore
easier to repair (although like all electronics, these
days that essentially means board swaps). When there
are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics
who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to
do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the
cars on the road will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and
software involved to make the them thing running. I talk
to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic
equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees
too! One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate
parts nation wide! EV cars still have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more than
trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your
corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty
much a thing of the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars,
Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone
can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a
Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half
decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any
competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had
the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper
at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not
generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all
cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose
what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of dollars
worth of specialized hardware and software - and it's different
hardware and software for different manufacturers. It's not
longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they
have the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't support
multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that
equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can get away
with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology.
Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now,
keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a
necessary componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't*
run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a
radio based system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine
was built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted with a
chip in the key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that
the ignition key would work regardless of the battery status in
the remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost
over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to
compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the
chip key will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your
local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that
doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a
specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel
injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for
$80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after. Some
one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has
to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be
installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 +
flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL!
Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and is
unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer possible
to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all critical
functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to *run* the
engine, once it's started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now, because it
was far more cost effective than repairing my 17 year old Mercedes,
and because I'm not inclined to deal with a car that needs regular
reapirs, as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes
rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better
car than I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get
over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra
expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage!
So to me, a good old car, no payments, fits the bill!
I think, BMW's are better cars than Mercedes!
  #19  
Old October 4th 17, 03:04 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

StarDust wrote in
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris
L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't
think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can
fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and
therefore easier to repair (although like all
electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric cars,
there will be more mechanics who can deal with them
than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline
vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road
will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and
software involved to make the them thing running. I
talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said-
diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than
train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for
software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still
have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more than
trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist.
Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is
pretty much a thing of the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German
cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing
breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a
Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half
decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any
competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had
the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on
paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but
not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys
for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even
diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of
dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and
it's different hardware and software for different
manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to
generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership,
and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most
carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but
a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology.
Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything
now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which
forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The
engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand,
doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in
2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard,
that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same
thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work
regardless of the battery status in the remote. The
disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300
each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go
to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key
will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local
Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that
doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a
specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip
programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel
injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for
$80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after.
Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because
dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security
code has to be installed too. They work together. New
computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600!
LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car!
(o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and
is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer
possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all
critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to
*run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now,
because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17
year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a
car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven
year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for
enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will
outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway.
Convenience is worth the extra expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a
new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance
break, because I drive less than 5K millage!


I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California,
it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever
driving you do.

So to me, a good
old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better
cars than Mercedes!

BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one,
others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
  #20  
Old October 4th 17, 05:25 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 732
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
:

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:


On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L
Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris
L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't
think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can
fix it.

Electric cars are mechanically simpler and
therefore easier to repair (although like all
electronics, these days that essentially means
board swaps). When there are enough electric cars,
there will be more mechanics who can deal with them
than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline
vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road
will be electric.

Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and
software involved to make the them thing running. I
talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said-
diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than
train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for
software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still
have some way to go!

Well, most cars these days needing anything more than
trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist.
Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is
pretty much a thing of the past.

Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German
cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing
breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW,

They key word there being *old*.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a
Swiss watch! What's wrong with that?

Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half
decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any
competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had
the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on
paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but
not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys
for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even
diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of
dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and
it's different hardware and software for different
manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to
generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership,
and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most
carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but
a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.)


[1]Some car makers use completely different technology.
Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything
now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which
forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The
engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand,
doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in
2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard,
that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same
thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work
regardless of the battery status in the remote. The
disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300
each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go
to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key
will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local
Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that
doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a
specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip
programming.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more
asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

(o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel
injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for
$80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after.
Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because
dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security
code has to be installed too. They work together. New
computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600!
LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car!
(o:

I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and
is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer
possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all
critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to
*run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point.

(On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now,
because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17
year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a
car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven
year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for
enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will
outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway.
Convenience is worth the extra expense.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a
new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance
break, because I drive less than 5K millage!


I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California,
it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever
driving you do.


Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy!


So to me, a good
old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better
cars than Mercedes!

BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one,
others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both.


Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are performance cars.
All though, the last 10-15 years both manufacturers make either style cars.
I still miss my 1985 BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior space.
http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...llic-535is.jpg

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.


 




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