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Eclipse for 21st century observers



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 24th 17, 05:48 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e..._mo1_stars.jpg

All stars transition from a twilight appearance (left of the Sun) to a dawn appearance (right of the Sun) however a solar eclipse presents an opportunity recognize the stars close to the central Sun and its glare in totality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ&t=4s

The state of astronomy is so poor that I had to borrow that graphic from an astrological website even though proof of the Earth's orbital motion is contained in the stellar transition as are the founding references for timekeeping.

The novelties of celestial sphere observing which began with the introduction of the calendar based RA/Dec framework is a calamity for a world who is asleep or ignores what it dumped on humanity. The response to easy to understand principles is clearly inhuman hence an intellectual shoah that exploits and robs people from connecting with the motions of our planet in context of the solar system and galaxy.

  #2  
Old June 26th 17, 08:36 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e...Tse1997uw2.png

The inner planets run their circuits around the Sun with Mercury running a smaller circuit than Venus so that we see the inner planets much like the satellites of Jupiter however a solar eclipse is the only time when the central Sun is in the frame otherwise observers are stuck with a dawn of twilight appearance depending on which side of the Sun each planet is.

The celestial sphere enthusiasts render the image in the calendar based RA/Dec thereby losing the interpretative value of the observation -

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e...997img_map.png

https://theskylive.com/sun-info

The upcoming eclipse provides multiple opportunities to explain old narratives like the foundations of timekeeping and new insights designed to engage humanity.




  #3  
Old July 3rd 17, 02:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

I have no doubt whatsoever that observers can grasp the circuits of Mercury and Venus around the Sun along with the transition of the stars from left (evening) to right (morning) of the stationary Sun as the Earth runs its circuit -

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e...Tse1997uw2.png

The sun is always at the center of the planetary loops so the resistance to the partitioning of retrogrades between the inner and outer planets by perspectives is dismaying although so little effort is put into this type of astronomy it is understandable. Even the great Galileo who first used the planetary phases didn't get this one -

"Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is acutely demonstrated by Copernicus . . ." Galileo

It is just hard to imagine why people would choose to willingly behave as they do even though they must be comfortable with the insight which is very much a property of our era.



  #4  
Old July 11th 17, 11:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 7:55:47 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

The sun is always at the center of the planetary loops so the resistance to the
partitioning of retrogrades between the inner and outer planets by perspectives
is dismaying although so little effort is put into this type of astronomy it is
understandable.


Since inner planets are always in the same half of the sky as the Sun from an
Earth-centered perspective, yes, their apparent motion has different properties
than that of outer planets. So their retrogrades will take a different form.

The ultimate cause in both cases, though, is that the Earth is one of the
planets, and also moves around the Sun. So I think that it is felt that the
differences between apparent phenomena here are not very important to dwell
upon, and assigning major significance to them risks being a regression to a
geocentric view of astronomy.

John Savard
  #5  
Old July 12th 17, 02:21 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:55:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
Since inner planets are always in the same half of the sky as the

Sun from an
Earth-centered perspective,


They don't. Consider e.g Mars and Earth, which both are inner
planets. I think you:re confusing inner planets with inferiör
planets. .

yes, their apparent motion has different properties
than that of outer planets. So their retrogrades will take a

different form.

The only difference is that inferior planets retrograde around
inferior conjunction instead of around opposition.
  #6  
Old July 12th 17, 07:14 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 2:21:07 AM UTC+1, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:55:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
Since inner planets are always in the same half of the sky as the

Sun from an
Earth-centered perspective,


They don't. Consider e.g Mars and Earth, which both are inner
planets. I think you:re confusing inner planets with inferiƶr
planets. .


You require a lively intelligence to distinguish a faster moving inner planet from a slower moving outer planet by the observed motions and traits.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/f...e/pia21260.jpg

Seen from a slower moving Mars, the Earth becomes an inner planet in this scheme with a full set of phases and darkest at their closest approach to the outer Earth as the faster moving inner planet transitions from left (evening appearance) to right (morning appearance) of the central and stationary Sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34mXua1n_FQ


The real innovation, depending on what is an inner planet seen from a slower moving outer planet, is setting the Sun up as a central reference from the point of view of the observer looking at the faster moving inner planets whether Venus and Mercury seen from Earth or the Earth,Venus and Mercury seen from the surface of Mars.

Relative speeds seen from a faster moving planet govern the perspectives of the outer planets where no phases and the outer planet is brightest at the closest approach to the faster moving planet -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/011...2000_tezel.gif

With a simple but exquisite picture of the Earth seen from Mars with its characteristic phase, the term inner and outer planet takes precedence over the idea that they are divided by an asteroid belt. Of course you have to think like an adult to make that important distinction.







yes, their apparent motion has different properties
than that of outer planets. So their retrogrades will take a

different form.

The only difference is that inferior planets retrograde around
inferior conjunction instead of around opposition.


  #7  
Old July 12th 17, 07:15 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 2:21:07 AM UTC+1, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:55:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
Since inner planets are always in the same half of the sky as the

Sun from an
Earth-centered perspective,


They don't. Consider e.g Mars and Earth, which both are inner
planets. I think you:re confusing inner planets with inferiƶr
planets. .

yes, their apparent motion has different properties
than that of outer planets. So their retrogrades will take a

different form.

The only difference is that inferior planets retrograde around
inferior conjunction instead of around opposition.


You require a lively intelligence to distinguish a faster moving inner planet from a slower moving outer planet by the observed motions and traits.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/f...e/pia21260.jpg

Seen from a slower moving Mars, the Earth becomes an inner planet in this scheme with a full set of phases and darkest at their closest approach to the outer Mars as the faster moving inner planet transitions from left (evening appearance) to right (morning appearance) of the central and stationary Sun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34mXua1n_FQ


The real innovation, depending on what is an inner planet seen from a slower moving outer planet, is setting the Sun up as a central reference from the point of view of the observer looking at the faster moving inner planets whether Venus and Mercury seen from Earth or the Earth,Venus and Mercury seen from the surface of Mars.

Relative speeds seen from a faster moving planet govern the perspectives of the outer planets where no phases and the outer planet is brightest at the closest approach to the faster moving planet -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/011...2000_tezel.gif

With a simple but exquisite picture of the Earth seen from Mars with its characteristic phase, the term inner and outer planet takes precedence over the idea that they are divided by an asteroid belt. Of course you have to think like an adult to make that important distinction.
  #8  
Old July 12th 17, 08:52 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 7:21:07 PM UTC-6, Paul Schlyter wrote:

They don't. Consider e.g Mars and Earth, which both are inner
planets. I think you:re confusing inner planets with inferiƶr
planets. .


You are correct, I meant inferior planets, I was just using the terminology I
found in the post to which I replied as I understood it from context.

John Savard
  #9  
Old July 12th 17, 08:57 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 12:16:00 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

With a simple but exquisite picture of the Earth seen from Mars with its
characteristic phase, the term inner and outer planet takes precedence over the
idea that they are divided by an asteroid belt. Of course you have to think like
an adult to make that important distinction.


Thank you for confirming that I understood the sense in which you were using
those terms in your post correctly.

I have, however, with a brief web search, confirmed that Paul Schlyter is
correct in noting that the term "inner planet", as generally used today by
astronomers, does refer to the Earth and Mars along with Mercury and Venus, and
the correct technical term for what you were referring to is indeed "inferior
planet".

Using words with the same meanings as everyone else does is helpful for
effective communication.

John Savard
  #10  
Old July 12th 17, 10:00 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 2:21:07 AM UTC+1, Paul Schlyter wrote:


The only difference is that inferior planets retrograde around
inferior conjunction instead of around opposition.


The only thing that is inferior here are the imageless and spiritless voodoo merchants but everything else is explained with ease and enjoyment, something denied the wider population because these fools can't use 21st century observations.

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e...Tse1997uw2.png

http://astronomer.wpengine.netdna-cd...s_of_venus.jpg

The sight of the inner planets running their circuits around a central Sun in the picture seen from Earth could now be joined by pictures of the Earth seen from Mars doing the same thing.

These empirical imposters have no respect for what has been done considering that the original heliocentric astronomers did make the distinction but were hampered in their inability to account for inner retrogrades using the antecedent geocentric framework -

"Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth." Galileo

There are only inferior minds who lack the spirit to make sense of observations in language that the wider population and especially students can understand.





 




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