Nova (PBS) Tuesday - EXCELLENT Program

Dear Everybody--Nova (PBS) normally airs on Tuesday evenings
and will do so again, Tuesday, January 6th. It will be the
same excellent program that aired tonight (Sunday) but promises
to include in its last five minutes the latest images (in color)
from Gusev Crater (what is believed to have once been a terminal
lake basin) on Mars.

These rovers are like remote geologists on wheels... It's the best
we can do right now as they extend some of our senses down to the
planet's surface!

Excellent Resources
http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/landing...opsites/final/
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html

For those with high speed Internet
http://www.nasa.gov/ram/35037main_portal.ram

The second Mars Explorer Rovers - Opportunity Lands:
January 25, 2004
about 4:05 pm UTC
http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/landing...opsites/final/

Cassini arrives at Saturn this Summer!
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini/
http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/index.cfm



"Seeing In The Dark" by Timothy Ferris
Pages 286-287

Perhaps the key to dying well--or living well--is to have laid in a
stock of worthy memories. To that end, when darkness is falling for
good, it is well to have in mind, in addition to memories of human love
and loss and of the natural splendors of this world--of birdsong at
dawn, the roaring spray of the surf, the sweet smell of the air in the
eye of a hurricane, the workings of bees in the throats of
wildflowers--a few memories of the other worlds as well. If you have
seen plasma arches rising off the edge of the Sun, yellow dust storms
raging on Mars, angry red Io emerging from the shadow of Jupiter, the
golden rings of Saturn, the green dot of Uranus, and the blue dot of
Neptune, the glittering star fields of Sagittarius and the delicate
tendrils connecting interacting galaxies, have watched auroras and
meteors writing silent signatures in the sky--if, in short, you have
seen not only this world but something of the other worlds, too--well,
you have lived.

So, while life is in us, and we are in it, let's keep our eyes open.

Sam Wormley wrote:

Dear Everybody--Nova (PBS) normally airs on Tuesday evenings
and will do so again, Tuesday, January 6th. It will be the
same excellent program that aired tonight (Sunday) but promises
to include in its last five minutes the latest images (in color)
from Gusev Crater (what is believed to have once been a terminal
lake basin) on Mars.

These rovers are like remote geologists on wheels... It's the best
we can do right now as they extend some of our senses down to the
planet's surface!

And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?

Bob Kolker

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 04:34:58 GMT, "Robert J. Kolker"
wrote:

And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain!

Wow, ignorance AND rude sarcasm. Two for one.


Paul Below
Battle Point Astronomical Association
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
http://bainbridgeisland.org/ritchieobs/

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 04:34:58 GMT, "Robert J. Kolker"
wrote:

And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain!

Wow, ignorance AND rude sarcasm. Two for one.


Paul Below
Battle Point Astronomical Association
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
http://bainbridgeisland.org/ritchieobs/

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 04:34:58 GMT, "Robert J. Kolker"
wrote:

And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain!

Wow, ignorance AND rude sarcasm. Two for one.


Paul Below
Battle Point Astronomical Association
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
http://bainbridgeisland.org/ritchieobs/

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?

That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.

Although it would be commendable if the space effort paid for itself, I
think it is unreasonable to expect it to do so. It is an exploratory
effort. In my opinion, we need some basic science research that cannot
be expected to yield results--certainly not monetary results--until far
down the road. If we only conducted efforts that had an expectation of
monetary return, we would stultify ourselves as a people.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt

Brian Tung wrote:

Robert J. Kolker wrote:

And they only cost $400,000,000 apiece. What a bargain! And how much new
technology is spinning off of that effort?

Wouldn't it be nice if our space effort actually paid for itself?


That's a buck forty or so per lander, per person in the United States.
It's not extraordinarily cheap, but we've seen what NASA does with cheap,
and sorry, no thank you.

You neglect to say the buck forty was taken whether or not the person
gave a damn about landing on Mars. Unless this is somehow related to our
national defense or keeping order in our land, I would say this is flat
out theft.


Although it would be commendable if the space effort paid for itself, I
think it is unreasonable to expect it to do so.

You prefer theft?

It is an exploratory
effort. In my opinion, we need some basic science research that cannot
be expected to yield results--certainly not monetary results--until far
down the road. If we only conducted efforts that had an expectation of
monetary return, we would stultify ourselves as a people.

At least we would not indulge in plunder of our own folk. If an effort
is so valuable I am sure the money can be raised in a voluntary fashion.

Any tax that is not earmarked for our defense or our safety if plunder
and redistribution. Governments are established to protect the lives
and property of the people who ordain them. Governments are not supposed
to be charitable with other people's money.

Bob Kolker

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
At least we would not indulge in plunder of our own folk. If an effort
is so valuable I am sure the money can be raised in a voluntary fashion.

I suspect the reason for our disagreement on this point is largely
political, but I do want to point out that humans are notoriously
shortsighted. If the horizon for the return is on the order of a human
lifetime, I don't think we can rely on privatization to do the right
thing. The U.S. public's perception of science is terribly poor.

On the rest of the points, I will simply say: Yes, I would prefer it
that way. You do not. That's fine; we have elections to resolve this
kind of thing.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt

Brian Tung wrote:
On the rest of the points, I will simply say: Yes, I would prefer it
that way. You do not. That's fine; we have elections to resolve this
kind of thing.


That is wonderful. That way the 51 percent who are wolves can have the
49 percent who are sheep for dinner.

Bob Kolker

Brian Tung wrote:
On the rest of the points, I will simply say: Yes, I would prefer it
that way. You do not. That's fine; we have elections to resolve this
kind of thing.


That is wonderful. That way the 51 percent who are wolves can have the
49 percent who are sheep for dinner.

Bob Kolker