What's going on with the Sun?

On Jul 1, 1:51*pm, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 12:52:24 -0400, "The_Doubter"

wrote:
In your opinion of course, but I don't see any evidence supporting this
statement.

It is my opinion because there is no evidence supporting the notion
that changes in solar output are responsible for global warming in the
last 150 years, but there is lots of evidence that other things have
produced that warming. There is also good evidence that the solar
output has not varied significantly in that period, outside of the
22-year cycle we are already familiar with.

How do you know for certain that there aren't changes in solar output? *Do
we detect and measure every parameter of the sun? *Maybe there's a good
chance "we" could be missing something.

I assume by "output" you are referring to some sort of energy in a
measurable range. If you means some sort of unknown rays or the like,
all bets are off in a scientific discussion.

We've been measuring output over a wide range of the spectrum with
satellites, balloons, and ground based instruments since the 1970s,
and no long term increase in energy output has been detected- despite
the fact that this period has seen the greatest increase in global
temperature. There are less precise ground based measurements going
back a few decades earlier, which also show no sign of any increase in
energy output. Finally, there are proxies (such as isotope records)
that go back thousands or even millions of years, and would probably
show any increase or decrease in solar output, even if determining
absolute levels would be difficult.

Because in the latter case, it's as I said before. *We are looking at a
very, very small slice of time and it's impossible to make such predictions
based on such a small window of date.

Wrong. It is precisely because we are looking at climate over only
about a century that our models are so good, and we have high
confidence in what is driving climate on this scale. We have good
instrumental data for many climate variables over this period.

What is much more difficult is understanding climate over thousands or
millions of years, when there are many more factors (such as
volcanism, or the oceanic biota) which come into play- generally
resulting in large, but slow shifts in global climate.

From 100+ million years BP, we're down to roughly 0.1% of global
diatom biota, if that counts for anything.

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In article ,
Sam Wormley wrote:

On 7/1/11 7:13 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
Using our moon to interactively block up to 3% of solar influx would
certainly reverse GW and AGW combined, and we'd be all set for
thousands of years to come, or at least until every last spendy and
bloody drop or kg of hydrocarbon fuel is expended during or by some
time after WW3 or WW4 that leaves less than 500 million cranky humans
on Earth.

How could this be done?

It can't. It is yet another delusion by "Guthy Gander," aka "Guthball,"
who holds that the moon landings were a hoax. Need I elaborate?

On Jun 30, 6:21*pm, "huhie" wrote:

Earth's Global Warming is causing the Sun to get hotter by radiating more
heat back to the sun.

Hey! I was waiting for "Wormley" to make the claim that man-made CO2
is causing changes in the sun!

SAVE THE SUN! CARBON TAXES NOW!

On Jul 1, 9:17*pm, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,
*Sam Wormley wrote:

* *How could this be done?

It can't. It is yet another delusion by "Guthy Gander," aka "Guthball,"
who holds that the moon landings were a hoax. Need I elaborate?

Yes you DO need to elaborate! Especially explain how the astro-nots
made it through the van Allen region PLUS the radiation of space
without logging any major radiation on their dosimeters. We'll wait.

China and India have kindly offered to provide experimentally high
levels of CO2 to confirm AGW to an absolute degree of certainty. We
only have to sit back and watch the rising CO2 /temperature curves
match each other ever more precisely. The Rest of the World is just
sitting on the energy bench. With gently rising CO2 levels unchanged
from two decades of lies, empty promises and political posturing.

The Arab Spring may yet offer further conclusive AGW evidence if
national wealth is suddenly dealt out more fairly. Probably leading to
an explosion in demand for air conditioning and mass ownership of
motor vehicles. If this trend towards toppling long term, vicious
dictatorships continues we will all be toasty warm within only another
decade. How many Burmese, Russians and North Koreans are presently
without climate control and personal vehicle ownership? With the
emancipation of women in stone age societies how may new cars will be
needed so that they may commute to gainful work?

For the serial doubters of AGW it ought to be possible to see the
upward kick in the CO2/ temperature curves from the mass adoption of
motor vehicles in the 1960s. Prior to this period, car ownership in
Europe (and other places) was vastly more limited. Traffic levels
suddenly went from very low to major traffic jams into every European
city. Often resulting in the wrecking of ancient town centres just to
build new, inner city and inter-city roads.

It ought also to be possible to read the emancipation of economic
Western youth in the climate curves at much the same period. Central
heating, refrigerators and TVs were all completely new phenomena of
1960s Western Europe in particular. The mass adoption of such energy
guzzlers, their production and consumption should all be clearly
visible in the post war CO2/ temperature curves.

We can only try to stop this high energy, thermal experiment on our
planet with completely new ways of doing things. Our present record of
improving our housekeeping is absolutely pitiful. We don't even live
within our economic means. No doubt several billions of "excess"
people and countless species will still be lost as they are crushed by
the runaway, thermal flywheel.

On Jul 1, 5:30*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 7/1/11 7:13 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

Using our moon to interactively block up to 3% of solar influx would
certainly reverse GW and AGW combined, and we'd be all set for
thousands of years to come, or at least until every last spendy and
bloody drop or kg of hydrocarbon fuel is expended during or by some
time after WW3 or WW4 that leaves less than 500 million cranky humans
on Earth.

* *How could this be done?

By pulling it further out and slowing it down.

Given enough time and force applied, it can be accomplished.

With tethers and some reactive thrusting of the counter mass at the
end of Each tether, should do the job of moving our moon to Earth L1,
and keeping it there.

I suppose you want all the math, time scale and budget?

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On Jul 1, 6:17*pm, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,
*Sam Wormley wrote:

On 7/1/11 7:13 PM, Brad Guth wrote:
Using our moon to interactively block up to 3% of solar influx would
certainly reverse GW and AGW combined, and we'd be all set for
thousands of years to come, or at least until every last spendy and
bloody drop or kg of hydrocarbon fuel is expended during or by some
time after WW3 or WW4 that leaves less than 500 million cranky humans
on Earth.

* *How could this be done?

It can't. It is yet another delusion by "Guthy Gander," aka "Guthball,"
who holds that the moon landings were a hoax. Need I elaborate?

Are you saying the laws of physics and orbital dynamics do not
actually work?

On Jul 1, 10:13*pm, Benj wrote:
On Jul 1, 9:17*pm, Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
*Sam Wormley wrote:
* *How could this be done?

It can't. It is yet another delusion by "Guthy Gander," aka "Guthball,"
who holds that the moon landings were a hoax. Need I elaborate?

Yes you DO need to elaborate! *Especially explain how the astro-nots
made it through the van Allen region PLUS the radiation of space
without logging any major radiation on their dosimeters. We'll wait.

Apparently all of their Kodak film was also rad-hard.

"Chris.B" wrote in message
...
China and India have kindly offered to provide experimentally high
levels of CO2 to confirm AGW to an absolute degree of certainty. We
only have to sit back and watch the rising CO2 /temperature curves
match each other ever more precisely. The Rest of the World is just
sitting on the energy bench. With gently rising CO2 levels unchanged
from two decades of lies, empty promises and political posturing.

The Arab Spring may yet offer further conclusive AGW evidence if
national wealth is suddenly dealt out more fairly. Probably leading to
an explosion in demand for air conditioning and mass ownership of
motor vehicles. If this trend towards toppling long term, vicious
dictatorships continues we will all be toasty warm within only another
decade. How many Burmese, Russians and North Koreans are presently
without climate control and personal vehicle ownership? With the
emancipation of women in stone age societies how may new cars will be
needed so that they may commute to gainful work?

For the serial doubters of AGW it ought to be possible to see the
upward kick in the CO2/ temperature curves from the mass adoption of
motor vehicles in the 1960s. Prior to this period, car ownership in
Europe (and other places) was vastly more limited. Traffic levels
suddenly went from very low to major traffic jams into every European
city. Often resulting in the wrecking of ancient town centres just to
build new, inner city and inter-city roads.

It ought also to be possible to read the emancipation of economic
Western youth in the climate curves at much the same period. Central
heating, refrigerators and TVs were all completely new phenomena of
1960s Western Europe in particular. The mass adoption of such energy
guzzlers, their production and consumption should all be clearly
visible in the post war CO2/ temperature curves.


Maybe this was happening in parts of the US in the 1960s but for most of
that decade most of *western* Europe was still recovering from WW2.

We can only try to stop this high energy, thermal experiment on our
planet with completely new ways of doing things. Our present record of
improving our housekeeping is absolutely pitiful. We don't even live
within our economic means. No doubt several billions of "excess"
people and countless species will still be lost as they are crushed by
the runaway, thermal flywheel.

Yep, we need renewables, recycling and new technology.

On 7/2/11 1:19 AM, Brad Guth wrote:
On Jul 1, 5:30 pm, Sam wrote:
On 7/1/11 7:13 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

Using our moon to interactively block up to 3% of solar influx would
certainly reverse GW and AGW combined, and we'd be all set for
thousands of years to come, or at least until every last spendy and
bloody drop or kg of hydrocarbon fuel is expended during or by some
time after WW3 or WW4 that leaves less than 500 million cranky humans
on Earth.

How could this be done?

By pulling it further out and slowing it down.

Given enough time and force applied, it can be accomplished.

With tethers and some reactive thrusting of the counter mass at the
end of Each tether, should do the job of moving our moon to Earth L1,
and keeping it there.

I suppose you want all the math, time scale and budget?

That is a requirement and a given!