The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun / S D Rodrian

Aardvark wrote:

Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

No it won't. It will oscillate back and forth.

--
Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile /
Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god /
Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested.

On Oct 29, 6:40*am, Frederick Williams
wrote:
Aardvark wrote:
Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

No it won't. It will oscillate back and forth.

--
Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile /
Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god /
Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested.

I refer you back to:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.ph...n&dmode=source


S D Rodrian
http://sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3.sdrodrian.com


On Oct 26, 1:51 am, BradGuth
wrote:
Gravity Force Inside a Spherical Shell
(is always zero)

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ell2.html#wtls

So, how thick is the shell or
gaseous outer wall of our sun?

If the universe operated as described
by classical laws of gravity (e.g. via
your mythical graviton) then probably
the Sun would look like a big frozen
planet (along with every other star).
The "shell" might simply descend in
density to a least dense center, that's all.

Fortunately the universe doesn't look
inside the craniums of men to learn
how it's permitted to work (or not):

Eventually men LEARN the Earth isn't flat.
That the universe does not revolve around
their itty bitty planet. And that the reason
why gravitational anomalies suffuse the
universe everywhere they look is NOT
because "God likes lo create complex
puzzles with wandering planets, and
gravitational forces that don't act on the
parts of a mass just on the whole of it"
BUT because they have yet to fully grasp
(understand) exactly how perfectly simple
the workings of the universe really are.

You can learn a bit of it by traveling to:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

You will have to shut your mind to the bunk
more primitive monkeys than you have come
up with throughout theis ascent from more
primitive ages... to our howling day. But it
can be done (by most monkeys, if not all).

Good luck!

S D Rodrian
http://sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3.sdrodrian.com




..

On Oct 29, 7:59 pm, "Peter Webb" wrote:
"Aardvark" wrote in message

If the universe operated as described
by classical laws of gravity (e.g. via
your mythical graviton) then probably
the Sun would look like a big frozen
planet (along with every other star).
The "shell" might simply descend in
density to a least dense center, that's all.

The Sun is a fluid.

On earth, more dense objects sink in fluids,
and less dense objects float.
But you believe that on the Sun, the highest
density matter floats on top of
less dense matter?

You're not thinking straight:

I do not claim that the universe works
in any way differently from how we
know it works.

I do know that if gravity were producing
"the effects of gravity," then the universe
could NOT work the way we know it works
(from the way gravity should work if it were
to work according to its own laws).

ERGO my scenario of a "less dense core"
for the Sun... if the universe worked according
to the laws of gavity.

The Sun does not actually have a less
dense core BECAUSE (see Newton's laws
of motion) since the beginning of the
universe everything in it has been
accelerating towards ITS CENTER(s).

NOTE: Not towards "a" center because
the sum total of its matter IS its center.
THERE is no other matter in the universe
than matter---I know this simplicity
is hard for monkeys to grasp. And I have
great sympathy for you, believe me.
But eventually you will all understand it;
just as you now understand that the math
that proved Ptolemy's earh-centered notion
didn't really prove anything except perhaps
the over-cleverness of us monkeys.

In affect, the universe is acting like
THE MOTHER OF ALL BLACK HOLES
with every "bit of matter in it" being
its "point of infinite density" (the very
obviously misnamed "singularity").

EVERYTHING about us is telling us
this is the case, but we are not yet
prepared (as a monkey society) to see it
(only I can see it--others may see it as
well, or perhaps blurrily, sooner or later).

THAT is why denser (the more mass, given
the same space) stuff "moves" toward center
with "greater weight" (more impetus) than
less massive matter (and why nearly mass-
less particles like the photon seen to shoot
about AT AN ALMOST INCREDIBLY CONSTANT
SPEED regardless of where in the universe
they are). And without knowing each other.

And why, the photon, after it slows down
while passing through a denser medium
suddenly re-speeds up after it hits a less
dense medium, and WITHOUT having to fire
any after-burners!

It's all explained from several different angles
at:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

and in a plain/simple English language
which even a six year old can follow.

See if you can,

S D Rodrian
http://sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3.sdrodrian.com

..

On Nov 1, 3:39 am, Tomm Carr
wrote:
Aardvark wrote:
The Ping-Pong Ball and The Sun.

[When it is at the Sun's surface,
the pull of the Sun's gravity on
the ping-pong ball will be at its
maximum.]

The instant the ping-pong ball plunges
past the surface of the Sun, the pull of
the Sun's gravity on the ping-pong ball
will begin to decrease.

[This is because as the ping-pong ball
travels closer and closer to the center
of the Sun: the mass pulling on the
ping-pong ball is decreasing, all the time
that there will be a growing amount of
Sun-mass behind it pulling back on it.]

Once the ping-pong ball reaches the center
of the Sun it will achieve gravity equilibrium
and lie forever suspended there (at the exact
center of a great hollow).

Conclusions from the above
thought experiment:

Your conclusions are flawed for
a very simple reason.

Thank God! I hate it when my conclusions
are flawed because of very complex reasons.

What you have done
is a rhetorical sleight-of-hand which,
like a good magician, gets us
looking in one direction while the action
is taking place in the other.

See: This is why there should be a law
against those TV programs that reveal how
the tricks of magicians like me are done.

You get everyone looking only at gravity
and missing the other forces at work.

That's in the other forces' work contract.

What you say about gravity is true: it is
greatest on the surface and
will cancel out -- be effectively zero -- in
the center. Pressure, otoh,
will be least on the surface and greatest
in the center.

You're thinking of a bowling ball there, friend:

[The Sun is not a bowling ball: If it were,
we'd know where the pressure was coming
from--But since the Sun is a ball of gas/plasma,
it should perfectly "describes" the impression
of gravity upon its matter ... exactly like the
magnetic fields of a magnet's poles "describe"
themselves on iron filings spread out on
a sheet of paper under which you move said
magnet. Do the experiment yourself. Remember:
There is NO WAY for one of the Sun's "filings"
(or: atomic particle) to "push" another anywhe
They should all travel towards where they are
"pulled" by gravity. ERGO: If the Sun were
indeed being "shaped" by gravity, there would
be no/little pressure towards the core to carry out
any fusion reaction. That is a physical fact which
nothing in your philosophy can dispute. THERE
IS fusion going on at the Sun's core, otherwise
it'd be a big ole bowling ball.] Therefore, Tommy

Trust me: The Sun (and every other heavenly body)
is being shaped/worked by "something" other than
your laws of gravity. Go read all about it at:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

The answer is PAINFULLY simple: It HAD to be,
otherwise IT COULDN'T BE--Even Einstein knew
this, when he said that "God does not play dice."
("Physicists have suggested that the laws and
constants of physics are too good - as if the
universe were set up to favour life's evolution.
It is as though there were, say, half a dozen dials
representing the major constants of physics. Each
of the dials could in principle be tuned to any of
a wide range of values. Almost all of these knob-
twiddlings would yield a universe in which life
would be impossible. Some universes would fizzle
out within the first picosecond. Others would
contain no elements heavier than hydrogen and
helium. In yet others, matter would never condense
into stars (and you need stars in order to forge
the elements of chemistry and hence life). You
can estimate the very low odds against the six
knobs all just happening to be correctly tuned,
and conclude that a divine knob-twiddler must have
been at work" IF you do not understand that the
sequence is not one of six disparate/unrelated
knobs but one of one leading INEVITABLY to
the next. In other words: The explanation to
Existence is always 1,2,3,4,5,6 ... inevitably.

If any other sequece is proposed the proposal is
as wrong as proposing your nephew created the
universe: No proof of that can ever be right. And
regardless how elegant the math may be.

How is that? Because the pressure is not
the result of gravity acting
directly on the ping-pong ball. It is the
result of gravity acting on
everything else.
At the surface, and at all points under the
surface until it gets to the
center, gravity is pulling the ball towards
the center. In fact, gravity
is pulling all the hydrogen (yes, helium
and other elements too -- but
vastly more hydrogen) toward the center.
Once at the center, gravity is
no longer effecting the ping-pong ball,
but it is still effecting the
trillions of trillions of trillions of tons
of hydrogen, all being
pulled, and generating pressure, toward
the center -- directly at the
hapless ping-pong ball. This exerts, as
could well be imagined, a good
deal of pressure on said ping-pong ball.

Read the theory of solar system creation:
All your atoms are experiencing a swirling,
NOT a rush towards center (you know, like
the orbiting planets, which are just merely
agglomerations of atoms).

The pressure towards center can NOT be
the result of gravity for an universe of
reasons (no pun intended).

For the reason why everything is always
moving towards center, go thou read it at:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

You know, when the Ptolemy System was
drawn up... it all fit together perfectly. The
math was mavelus! Except, of course, that
a few "stars" (planets, actually, like Venus)
would suddenly seem to come to a dead stop,
and then go back the way they'd come!!!

But that was just a few planets--Why scrap
a beautiful system like Ptolemy's just for a few
lousy planets that refused to obey its laws?

Well, because it told you the system was rotten.

Well the system of Gravity we have today to
explain the way the universe works doesn't
just have a few wandering planets, it has
scientists losing their sanity and proposing
science fiction solutions at almost EVERY turn:

Time-travel (Yes: they're now quite SERIOUSLY
blaming the failure at CERN on "the notion that
the troubled collider is being sabotaged by its
own futu A pair of otherwise distinguished
physicists have suggested that the hypothesized
Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce
with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature
that its creation would ripple backward through
time and stop the collider before it could make
one, like a time traveler who goes back in time
to kill his grandfather.")... and a myriad other
idiotic physical impossibilities like "dark energy."

And yet these idiots refuse to accept that their
extire system is rotten. Believe Einstein on this
one: The solution is not 1, 483, 43, 9, 1999, 2
but 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Inevitability is ALWAYS the correct solution.

You can even perform a real-world experiment
to observe this principle,
using a real ping-pong ball and a swimming
pool. At the surface, there
is no pressure on the ball -- it floats there
quite happily. But cup
your hand over it and push it to the bottom
of the deep end. By the time
you get to the bottom of the pool, the ball
should be thoroughly
crushed. By gravity? No, the amount of
gravity pulling on the ball will
not have changed significantly from the top
of the pool to the bottom.
It was all that water on top of the ball
that generated the pressure. --Tomm Catt

I already tried this experiment on the SUN
itself, and burnt my hand--I suggest you try
thought experiments (if you're crazy enough
they'll all work out).

S D Rodrian
http://sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3.sdrodrian.com



..

On Nov 21, 12:29 am, "Angelo Campanella"
wrote:
Rather than a cavity, the region is
one of zero gravity!

Sorry: The region (core) is one of the MOST/
THE HIGHEST pressure of all--My point, rather,
is that according to the laws of gravity THIS
SHOULD NOT BE. And yet it is. Did you miss this?

The vacuum concept is the one that
does not occur, per se. In its place is
the Zero gravity field, which allows for
mixing with no gradients
interfereing, an intersting cauldron.

Well, if you can explain how the hydrogen
atoms are PRESSED closed enough together
to knock them into a fusion reaction... WITHOUT
any gravitational intervention: THAT would
certainly be something worth listening to!

Which is it? SEE:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

Very long winded. I never got to
any core punch line.

This is the history of people who do
not know and probably will never know:
You simply are not interested enough to
pursue the hard road to where the answer IS.

I'll write it he Gravity does not exist.
There is NO such thing as "gravity" (e.g.
gravitons, gravity waves, or anything like).
Now go read the complete solution at:

http://physics.sdrodrian.com

The universe (and stars, the Sun) does
not work by gravity--what has been
described as gravity). Nor is it the result
of a primordial infinitely dense atom
exploding (a Big Bang) where the 4 forces
were one or any such nonsense (hell,
even the people who propose this will
instantly turn around and tell you in the
very next breath that gravity is not really
a force: "It is a timespace fabric" upon
which marbles and balls roll around...
bending the fabric Einstein knitted to
replace the ether idea he himself had
torn to shreds (replaced, really, as you
can see). BECAUSE it is impossible to
defend the existence of the "force" of
gravity. Please ask these people how
gravity ceased to be a force immediately
after the Big Bang and became an ether.

And it all goes back to HOW the universe
came to be formed in the first place: In
its simplest sense, think of it as an area
in "the primordial voids" of lesser pressure
into which the surrounding greater pressures
rushed--And there was created our universe.

That "rush" of everything towards center(s)
is still going on (but ever faster and faster
because of the conservation of angular
momentum one sees when something/anything
spinning suddenly occupies a smaller area).
This is essentially what has been going on in
the universe all along... and eventually creates
a universe of hydrogen atoms which eventually
becomes a universe of black holes and then--?

Since the universe is rather ancient now and
it is ever-accelerating, its "speed" now must
be horrifically fast--Why don't we notice it?
We do, in the speed of light. But this hints
at an even profounder human condition: Our
lives, which appear to be so protracted, are
really unimaginably instantaneous (which
give us the sensation of a universe just
hanging around, chilling as it were, because
our every thoughts are so fleeting): Our
lives are a blink, we just don't see it.

Life, as we know it, can only exist in the
universe in transition from hydrogen atoms
to black holes. So take time to understand
things now, because there will never exist
understanding ever again.

S D Rodrian
http://sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://mp3.sdrodrian.com


..

"Aardvark" wrote in message ...

Well, if you can explain how the hydrogen
atoms are PRESSED closed enough together
to knock them into a fusion reaction... WITHOUT
any gravitational intervention: THAT would
certainly be something worth listening to!

Still at this?

Stand in the center of 100,000 starving people and hold up a Big Mac. Everyone towards
the center will be pushing back, but they are outnumbered which will lead to you, and them,
getting crushed. So, yeah, that Mac's influence was pretty much equalized at the center, now,
wasn't it?