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How cool is VL2
GOT TRUTH ?
GOT REMORSE ? GOT ANYTHING TO SHARE AND SHARE ALIKE ? GOT ANOTHER LOAD OF CRAPOLLA IN YOUR PANTS ? Is VL2 simply too cool for even a nifty collective of POOFs? Where's all the supposed "right stuff"? - Brad Guth |
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How cool is VL2
wrote:
GOT TRUTH ? GOT REMORSE ? GOT ANYTHING TO SHARE AND SHARE ALIKE ? GOT ANOTHER LOAD OF CRAPOLLA IN YOUR PANTS ? Is VL2 simply too cool for even a nifty collective of POOFs? Where's all the supposed "right stuff"? An all-caps meltdown. Good job, Brad. -- Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco "Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco? The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco." -- Dr. David Tholen "Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from attribution problems?" -- Dr. David Tholen |
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How cool is VL2
On Apr 7, 3:40 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:06:37 -0600 : The Ghost In The Machine wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:24:04 -0600 : wrote: OOPS! Now I've gone and insulted the Ovgolve cult of mindless morons. Sorry about that. Perhaps Venus is simply too freaking hot to touch, even with the Ovglove. Within an average of having been losing 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 1e16 watts continuously available at the core), represents that some areas of the Venus surface are perhaps worth less than a w/m2, with other areas radiating at perhaps 200 w/m2, and of course more than a few active mud, lava and gas vents contributing their energy at many thousands of watts per square meter. So, the Ovglove applications are at best spotty, and along with the IR CCD or most likely using of some other thermally tolerant instrument of such technology at hand, there's no good reason to think of our having to walk on those extra toasty locations where the heat of what's geothermally forced is excessively pushing the limits of those EVA Ovglove suits as intended and thus configured for keeping their folks cool. Too bad you don't understand heat transfer, Brad. There is also the little problem of how exactly one would wear this suit while walking on a surface and surrounded by atmosphere both of which are more than hot enough to melt zinc. Only a small problem. Well, the Venera-9 probe did last maybe an hour, and the communications failure was not due to heat, but because the orbiter went out of range. No word on whether the orbiter tried to reacquire when it came back around (if it could, though Venus rotates far more slowly than terra firma). The Soviets got some nice pictures, though unfortunately the probe got stuck at a weird angle for some reason. :-) Venera 10, 13, and 14 also returned some photos; Vega-1 and 2 flew by Venus and dropped probes but were primarily interested in Halley's comet. http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogVenus.htm So one wonders -- but it would be pretty bad. As for Venusian techtonics and volcanic activity -- as far as I can tell, there aren't any. In GuthWorld, there's plenty. FWIW, there were plenty of volcanoes at one point, but other structures such as subduction zones -- which presumably are easily seen using altimeter measurements -- are absent. http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/planet...nus/intro.html -- #191, Murphy was an optimist. -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So, besides being a little dumbfounded, what's the big-ass insurmountable problem? If Venus were at times any closer, as such it would become listed as that of an NEO. As I'd said at least a million times before; efficiently cruising in that composite rigid airship, along with all of that spare pizza and ice cold beer, doesn't sound all that nasty. With such spare and 100% renewable energy at your disposal, what's all that insurmountable? It looks as though the existing township of GUTH Venus is ready to utilize as is. Besides, isn't VL2 perfectly POOF doable as is? - Brad Guth |
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How cool is VL2
On Apr 7, 1:45 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:24:04 -0600 : wrote: OOPS! Now I've gone and insulted the Ovgolve cult of mindless morons. Sorry about that. Perhaps Venus is simply too freaking hot to touch, even with the Ovglove. Within an average of having been losing 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 1e16 watts continuously available at the core), represents that some areas of the Venus surface are perhaps worth less than a w/m2, with other areas radiating at perhaps 200 w/m2, and of course more than a few active mud, lava and gas vents contributing their energy at many thousands of watts per square meter. So, the Ovglove applications are at best spotty, and along with the IR CCD or most likely using of some other thermally tolerant instrument of such technology at hand, there's no good reason to think of our having to walk on those extra toasty locations where the heat of what's geothermally forced is excessively pushing the limits of those EVA Ovglove suits as intended and thus configured for keeping their folks cool. Too bad you don't understand heat transfer, Brad. There is also the little problem of how exactly one would wear this suit while walking on a surface and surrounded by atmosphere both of which are more than hot enough to melt zinc. As for Venusian techtonics and volcanic activity -- as far as I can tell, there aren't any. -- #191, Useless C++ Programming Idea #12995733: bool f(bool g, bool h) { if(g) h = true; else h = false; return h;} -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The only problem is the borg naysayism that's within your silly head. Don't be such an old fart of a silly stick in the mud. Think outside the box. Venus is NOT too hot to touch, at least not with the Ovglove. BTW; why are you intentionally posting to those hocus-pocus (aka phony baloney and/or Third Reich) "alt.fan.art-bell,alt.usenet.kooks" groups? - Brad Guth |
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How cool is VL2
wrote:
On Apr 7, 3:40 pm, The Ghost In The Machine wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:06:37 -0600 : The Ghost In The Machine wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:24:04 -0600 : wrote: OOPS! Now I've gone and insulted the Ovgolve cult of mindless morons. Sorry about that. Perhaps Venus is simply too freaking hot to touch, even with the Ovglove. Within an average of having been losing 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 1e16 watts continuously available at the core), represents that some areas of the Venus surface are perhaps worth less than a w/m2, with other areas radiating at perhaps 200 w/m2, and of course more than a few active mud, lava and gas vents contributing their energy at many thousands of watts per square meter. So, the Ovglove applications are at best spotty, and along with the IR CCD or most likely using of some other thermally tolerant instrument of such technology at hand, there's no good reason to think of our having to walk on those extra toasty locations where the heat of what's geothermally forced is excessively pushing the limits of those EVA Ovglove suits as intended and thus configured for keeping their folks cool. Too bad you don't understand heat transfer, Brad. There is also the little problem of how exactly one would wear this suit while walking on a surface and surrounded by atmosphere both of which are more than hot enough to melt zinc. Only a small problem. Well, the Venera-9 probe did last maybe an hour, and the communications failure was not due to heat, but because the orbiter went out of range. No word on whether the orbiter tried to reacquire when it came back around (if it could, though Venus rotates far more slowly than terra firma). The Soviets got some nice pictures, though unfortunately the probe got stuck at a weird angle for some reason. :-) Venera 10, 13, and 14 also returned some photos; Vega-1 and 2 flew by Venus and dropped probes but were primarily interested in Halley's comet. http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogVenus.htm So one wonders -- but it would be pretty bad. As for Venusian techtonics and volcanic activity -- as far as I can tell, there aren't any. In GuthWorld, there's plenty. FWIW, there were plenty of volcanoes at one point, but other structures such as subduction zones -- which presumably are easily seen using altimeter measurements -- are absent. http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/planet...nus/intro.html -- #191, Murphy was an optimist. -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So, besides being a little dumbfounded, what's the big-ass insurmountable problem? If Venus were at times any closer, as such it would become listed as that of an NEO. Are you unable to read, Brad? Do you understand how hot the melting point of zinc is? As I'd said at least a million times before; efficiently cruising in that composite rigid airship, along with all of that spare pizza and ice cold beer, doesn't sound all that nasty. And its been laughed at that many times. With such spare and 100% renewable energy at your disposal, what's all that insurmountable? Toxic atmosphere at kiln-level temperatures. How do you remove that heat, Brad, assuming the machinery doesn't corrode into a metallic mess? It looks as though the existing township of GUTH Venus is ready to utilize as is. Photoshop isn't your friend, Brad. Besides, isn't VL2 perfectly POOF doable as is? You first, Brad. Have a good trip. -- Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco "Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco? The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco." -- Dr. David Tholen "Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from attribution problems?" -- Dr. David Tholen |
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How cool is VL2
On Apr 8, 10:46 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote: In sci.physics, Venus is NOT too hot to touch, at least not with the Ovglove. Touching Venus is the least of one's worries. The Ovglove is an oven mitt; to properly characterize the issue one would have to preheat the oven at the "Super Dooper Hot Broil" setting (about 860 F), step inside the oven (which, since this is a thought experiment, would be a walk-in affair), close the door, and wait for an hour or so. One is allowed to wear an Ovglove body suit, if one wishes. To be fair, the atmosphere would have to be extremely dry within the oven, so one is allowed to sweat (and there are materials that "breathe", allowing water out; presumably the Ovglove can be suitably modified); of course, there is the little issue of replenishing that sweat. I'd frankly doubt if the "wind chill" factor would be enough to dissipate sufficient heat to keep the Ovglove wearer alive. And then there's the little issue of breathing. Where would the oxygen come from? The good news: one might be able to read a book without too much trouble; the lack of O2 within the Venusian atmosphere should preclude its flashing into flame. Also, surface gravity shouldn't be too much above 9.805 N/kg. (Assuming one's brain isn't fried, of course.) The GOOGLE/Usenet takes in, but lo and behold their topic index of replies doesn't indicate this following contribution, so I'll try it once again. Obviously I Ovglove jest, and obviously the co2--co/o2 (same process as working on behalf of the Mars mission fiasco) is where the local needs of whatever O2 is to be found, except in easily available bulk. The last time I'd checked, Venus had a touch more than its fair share of co2 (kept nicely bone dry and process preheated to boot), and otherwise having way more than its fair share of locally renewable energy to burn (sort of speak), so that you don't have to bother packing along a nuclear reactor, and at that local pressure your body doesn't even require all that much O2 (just lots of ice cold beer). Before doing Venus in whatever cozy Ovglove protected person, even though a composite rigid airship/shuttle or whatever 'tomcat' fat- waverider should more than do the trick, whereas Venus L2 is offering us the very next best available ticket to ride, and without such involving any Ovgloves. Venus L2(VL2) is in fact a POOF friendly and thus offering a technically worthy location for an entire collective or community of such inflated habitat items, that can be made quite livable for each of those 19+ month missions, especially if getting shielded by an extra meter or more of beer. Obviously I beer jest, as such required shield density could be accomplished via Gin or Vodka, and subsequently replaced by good old reliable pee. (waste not, want not) Only the systematically perverted mindset of this mostly Old Testament Usenet from naysay hell, that is in any formal disagreement as based entirely upon their own faith-based crapolla, are of what's getting this notion terminated, by way of those intent upon keeping all of those mutually perpetrated cold-war and religious hocus-pocus lids on tight, as for otherwise their having been focused upon topic/author bashings, diverting and/or their total banishing upon all that's Venus. (I think it's mostly a silly Old Testament Jewish thing, along with those crazy Catholics and a few other cults bringing up the rear) Unfortunately, ESA's Venus EXPRESS(VIRTIS) mission is keeping itself every bit as dead as that of whatever our MI/NSA~NASA wants it to be dead. The thermal imaging data from their robust PFS instrument has been kept entirely taboo/nondisclosure rated (aka need to know) from the very get go. The surface of Venus is still giving off the average of 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 256 fold greater core energy loss than Earth), and the lower atmospheric environment of Venus (below them relatively cool acidic clouds) as having in fact been rather nicely insulated at that, as well as for having incorporated that fairly robust S8 layer as being an extra nifty solar isolation benefit, so that damn little of the available solar IR influx ever reaches that geothermally forced surface or even contributing all that much solar energy into that dense lower atmosphere, of what's mostly a thick vapor/dry mixture of S8 and CO2, that's otherwise unavoidably made available and sustained as being toasty hot from whatever just below the geothermal surface on up. Venus is NOT getting solar roasted to death, at least not entirely if hardly so. ESA's sorry as hell "status reports" are all the way down to being robo status quo. It's as though they're down to the science data sharing dregs of a pair of soup cans and some string. ESA's mission demise is too bad because, Venus has otherwise been so nearby (at times merely 100 fold greater distance than our moon), so otherwise planetology alive and kicking, as well as so ET accessible (except for the likes of us village heathen idiots that still can't honestly manage to walk upon our very own nearby moon, and much less dare live to tell about it w/o involving banked bone marrow). BTW; why are those other "The Ghost In The Machine" minions so entirely screwed up? - Brad Guth |
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How cool is VL2
In sci.physics,
wrote on 8 Apr 2007 13:25:39 -0700 .com: On Apr 8, 10:46 am, The Ghost In The Machine wrote: In sci.physics, Venus is NOT too hot to touch, at least not with the Ovglove. Touching Venus is the least of one's worries. The Ovglove is an oven mitt; to properly characterize the issue one would have to preheat the oven at the "Super Dooper Hot Broil" setting (about 860 F), step inside the oven (which, since this is a thought experiment, would be a walk-in affair), close the door, and wait for an hour or so. One is allowed to wear an Ovglove body suit, if one wishes. To be fair, the atmosphere would have to be extremely dry within the oven, so one is allowed to sweat (and there are materials that "breathe", allowing water out; presumably the Ovglove can be suitably modified); of course, there is the little issue of replenishing that sweat. I'd frankly doubt if the "wind chill" factor would be enough to dissipate sufficient heat to keep the Ovglove wearer alive. And then there's the little issue of breathing. Where would the oxygen come from? The good news: one might be able to read a book without too much trouble; the lack of O2 within the Venusian atmosphere should preclude its flashing into flame. Also, surface gravity shouldn't be too much above 9.805 N/kg. (Assuming one's brain isn't fried, of course.) The GOOGLE/Usenet takes in, but lo and behold their topic index of replies doesn't indicate this following contribution, so I'll try it once again. Obviously I Ovglove jest, and obviously the co2--co/o2 (same process as working on behalf of the Mars mission fiasco) is where the local needs of whatever O2 is to be found, except in easily available bulk. The last time I'd checked, Venus had a touch more than its fair share of co2 (kept nicely bone dry and process preheated to boot), and otherwise having way more than its fair share of locally renewable energy to burn (sort of speak), so that you don't have to bother packing along a nuclear reactor, and at that local pressure your body doesn't even require all that much O2 (just lots of ice cold beer). So OK then. How does one convert CO2 to O2 in a 9.3 MPa, 860F environment? Before doing Venus in whatever cozy Ovglove protected person, even though a composite rigid airship/shuttle or whatever 'tomcat' fat- waverider should more than do the trick, whereas Venus L2 is offering us the very next best available ticket to ride, and without such involving any Ovgloves. Venus L2(VL2) is in fact a POOF friendly and thus offering a technically worthy location for an entire collective or community of such inflated habitat items, that can be made quite livable for each of those 19+ month missions, especially if getting shielded by an extra meter or more of beer. Obviously I beer jest, as such required shield density could be accomplished via Gin or Vodka, and subsequently replaced by good old reliable pee. (waste not, want not) Only the systematically perverted mindset of this mostly Old Testament Usenet from naysay hell, that is in any formal disagreement as based entirely upon their own faith-based crapolla, are of what's getting this notion terminated, by way of those intent upon keeping all of those mutually perpetrated cold-war and religious hocus-pocus lids on tight, as for otherwise their having been focused upon topic/author bashings, diverting and/or their total banishing upon all that's Venus. (I think it's mostly a silly Old Testament Jewish thing, along with those crazy Catholics and a few other cults bringing up the rear) Unfortunately, ESA's Venus EXPRESS(VIRTIS) mission is keeping itself every bit as dead as that of whatever our MI/NSA~NASA wants it to be dead. The thermal imaging data from their robust PFS instrument has been kept entirely taboo/nondisclosure rated (aka need to know) from the very get go. The surface of Venus is still giving off the average of 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 256 fold greater core energy loss than Earth), and the lower atmospheric environment of Venus (below them relatively cool acidic clouds) as having in fact been rather nicely insulated at that, as well as for having incorporated that fairly robust S8 layer as being an extra nifty solar isolation benefit, so that damn little of the available solar IR influx ever reaches that geothermally forced surface or even contributing all that much solar energy into that dense lower atmosphere, of what's mostly a thick vapor/dry mixture of S8 and CO2, that's otherwise unavoidably made available and sustained as being toasty hot from whatever just below the geothermal surface on up. Venus is NOT getting solar roasted to death, at least not entirely if hardly so. ESA's sorry as hell "status reports" are all the way down to being robo status quo. It's as though they're down to the science data sharing dregs of a pair of soup cans and some string. ESA's mission demise is too bad because, Venus has otherwise been so nearby (at times merely 100 fold greater distance than our moon), so otherwise planetology alive and kicking, as well as so ET accessible (except for the likes of us village heathen idiots that still can't honestly manage to walk upon our very own nearby moon, and much less dare live to tell about it w/o involving banked bone marrow). BTW; why are those other "The Ghost In The Machine" minions so entirely screwed up? There's only one, and it's me. :-P Unless I have some strange groupies attempting to follow my tail or something (STOP THAT OUT THERE YOU STRANGE GROUPIES! :-) ). In any event, you are postulating a trip to Venus L2 from Earth, are you not? This is fine, but one will have to work out exactly how much one has to transport (are we talking 1 human, 1 family, 1 dozen families, 1 million families, all of humanity?) plus sufficient resources to keep them alive, starting with a method by which they'd generate electric power (recall that VL2 is in virtual shadow; the best they might hope for there is some atmospheric refraction, if that), and whatever else is needed to get them from here to there. - Brad Guth -- #191, Useless C++ Programming Idea #104392: for(int i = 0; i 1000000; i++) sleep(0); -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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How cool is VL2
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
BTW; why are you intentionally posting to those hocus-pocus (aka phony baloney and/or Third Reich) "alt.fan.art-bell,alt.usenet.kooks" groups? Probably because of inattentiveness on my part. I did not set those explicitly. That was me; Brad is always on-topic in AUK and AFA-B. -- Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco "Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco? The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco." -- Dr. David Tholen "Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from attribution problems?" -- Dr. David Tholen |
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How cool is VL2
On Apr 8, 2:39 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote: So OK then. How does one convert CO2 to O2 in a 9.3 MPa, 860F environment? The same exact technical process as for doing Mars, except you don't have to import a nuclear reactor for accommodating the necessary process energy, nor having to wait for a year's worth of processing to take place, and therefore roughly less than 1% the cost and complications of doing Mars. I can't recall each of the technical steps in that process of converting co2 back into the raw elements of co/o2, but it's posted on the internet by the likes of Dr. Zubrin and several others if we ever need to know. In any event, you are postulating a trip to Venus L2 from Earth, are you not? Yes, why the hell not? After all, VL2 is rather nearby every 19 months. This is fine, but one will have to work out exactly how much one has to transport (are we talking 1 human, 1 family, 1 dozen families, 1 million families, all of humanity?) plus sufficient resources to keep them alive, starting with a method by which they'd generate electric power (recall that VL2 is in virtual shadow; the best they might hope for there is some atmospheric refraction, if that), and whatever else is needed to get them from here to there. Even though VL2 is a relatively cool parking spot, there's actually a bit more solar energy to behold while cruising within VL2 than you might tend to think. It's also a halo orbit worth of station-keeping, therefore you can expect and/or control as much solar energy influx as you might need for those banks of PV cells to function, of which such PV panels can be tethered out a good few km in whatever direction if need be. Besides, the VL2 energy budget per accommodating each individual shouldn't be 10% of the ISS energy budget that has to deal with so much extra solar and secondary earthshine issues, along with the little extra amount of IR/FIR that's coming off our moon. Each POOF having it's own set of ION thrusters is what gives this community of POOFs the collective borg like advantage, as well as multiple forms of backup, and perhaps if all goes well enough, at most we should only have to chuck two or three of the original manifest of crew and passengers due to whatever unavoidable complications. For argument sake, let us go for a bakers dozen (aka 13 souls, at least 10 of which can be paying passengers), and remember that there should also be more than a few corporate/commercial sponsors, such as the various pizza, beers, self sealing barf-bags and on behalf of those extreme containment diaper manufacturers. To begin with, just pack as much pizza and ice cold beer as possible along for the ride, the rest will follow suit. We can charge our clients at least $100 million each (one way, as they'll have to fork over another $100 million if they ever plan on returning to Earth). The likes of wizard 'tomcat' will gladly R&D and supply his fat- waverider or whatever go-fast SuperSkylon, or perhaps going for the do- everything form of a composite rigid airship, although others are likely more qualified. Bigelow and Russia or perhaps via China will deal with creating and getting those nifty POOFs into place (a minimum of 3 POOFs, although a community of 5 POOFs might be best since we'll need at least one POOF for accommodating all of that pizza and beer, with one other unit serving as their loony bin POOF, and of course their SuperSkylon transporter standing nearby as their eventual ride home, and/or possible OOPS! Plan-B get away) - Brad Guth |
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