Flight Test Vasimr?

What's the current status of Vasimr, and what problems need to be solved
before Nasa can flight test a unit?

John Schutkeker wrote:

What's the current status of Vasimr, and what problems need to be solved
before Nasa can flight test a unit?
... cash?;-) Regards
Adam Przybyla

Nasawatch.com reports that Griffin attended the Marshall Space Flight
Centre last Friday and answered questions from staff, including the
following as reported by a reader of Nasawatch:

***One of our guys asked him "Since some type of advanced propulsion
will be essential for ever getting humans beyond Mars was there any way
he could provide some support in the somewhat near term for advanced
propulsion research." He answered very strongly, "NO !!!", followed by
a very long silence.***

Read more he
http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20...ment.html#more

I'm not sure who has responsibility for the VASMIR file, but if it is
within NASA or an associated agency, Griffin's posture seems to suggest
that VASMIR won't be going anywhere soon unless it can be strongly
linked to the Apollo 2.0 effort.

Optik wrote:[...]
I'm not sure who has responsibility for the VASMIR file, but if it is
within NASA or an associated agency, Griffin's posture seems to suggest
that VASMIR won't be going anywhere soon unless it can be strongly
linked to the Apollo 2.0 effort.

It was Franklin Chang-Diaz's project, and he had expected to fly a test
article on a shuttle flight in spring 2003...but that may have slipped
for reasons not related to Columbia, also. No one in this group seemed
to know the last time I asked.

/dps

On 9 Jan 2006 12:43:33 -0800, "Optik" wrote:


I'm not sure who has responsibility for the VASMIR file, but if it is
within NASA or an associated agency, Griffin's posture seems to suggest
that VASMIR won't be going anywhere soon unless it can be strongly
linked to the Apollo 2.0 effort.

We won't need it for Apollo 2.0. It will be useful for Mars, but Mars
is a lot further down the road. VASIMIR can wait until we get over the
Shuttle/CEV/CLV funding hump.

Brian

Originally Posted by John Schutkeker

What's the current status of Vasimr, and what problems need to be solved
before Nasa can flight test a unit?

"""...VASIMR which still require considerable R&D to understand the underlying physics and considerably improve their presently low thrust efficiency.""""
from:
http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/propulsion/ultra_ion.htm
Rémy

In article 2,
John Schutkeker wrote:
What's the current status of Vasimr, and what problems need to be solved
before Nasa can flight test a unit?

Well, building a *ground*-test unit would be a good start. (There is no
VASIMR engine, to date -- some experimental work has been done on major
components, but the engine as a whole remains a paper concept.)

Showing a reason why it's better than assorted competitors -- aside from
the fact that its would-be developers issue more press releases -- would
also be good.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

In article , Henry Spencer says...

In article 2,
John Schutkeker wrote:
What's the current status of Vasimr, and what problems need to be solved
before Nasa can flight test a unit?

Well, building a *ground*-test unit would be a good start. (There is no
VASIMR engine, to date -- some experimental work has been done on major
components, but the engine as a whole remains a paper concept.)

Actually, VASIMR is the sort of concept that cries out for a space station
suitable for early on-orbit testing. One of the key issues is the magnetic
nozzle, which is hard to test on the ground. The plasma has to detach from
the magnetic field cleanly if thrust is to be generated, and that occurs in
the far-field region. Which in ground test facilities tends to be grossly
distorted by chamber wall effects.

Alas, all we have is a space station suitable, with herculean effort, for
issuing periodic press releases saying "We haven't had to completely abandon
the space station yet! Yay us!".

We also have the magic buzzwords, "Modeling and Simulation". Yay us.

We used to have Mir, alas. Mir, you could talk to some Russians and say,
"You got some extra capacity on the next Progress? Some cosmonaut time
for an EVA to attach this gadget somewhere on the hull exterior?", and
it could actually hapen sometime this year for mere single-digit megabucks.


Showing a reason why it's better than assorted competitors -- aside from
the fact that its would-be developers issue more press releases -- would
also be good.

But it was invented by an *Astronaut*. How could it not be best?

Grumble, grumble.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
* for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *

John Schilling wrote:
We used to have Mir, alas. Mir, you could talk to some Russians and say,
"You got some extra capacity on the next Progress? Some cosmonaut time
for an EVA to attach this gadget somewhere on the hull exterior?", and
it could actually hapen sometime this year for mere single-digit megabucks.

Question, possibly stupid.

What happens if you talk to some Russians now and say "You got some
extra capacity on the next Progress? Some cosmonaut time for an EVA to
attach this gadget somewhere on the hull exterior?", and offer a few
single-digit megabucks?

Clearly, the NASA station folk would not be happy about it. But I
can't imagine that the NASA station folk are too happy about the
constant stream of tourists on the Soyuz transfer missions, and yet
those still take place. I'd imagine NASA is REALLY not happy about
paying $24M a pop to take astronauts up on Soyuz, yet they just did.

-jake

In article .com, Jake McGuire
says...

John Schilling wrote:
We used to have Mir, alas. Mir, you could talk to some Russians and say,
"You got some extra capacity on the next Progress? Some cosmonaut time
for an EVA to attach this gadget somewhere on the hull exterior?", and
it could actually hapen sometime this year for mere single-digit megabucks.

Question, possibly stupid.

What happens if you talk to some Russians now and say "You got some
extra capacity on the next Progress? Some cosmonaut time for an EVA to
attach this gadget somewhere on the hull exterior?", and offer a few
single-digit megabucks?

Well, until they figure out that they are the de facto owners of the
ISS, the first thing they do is talk to NASA about it...


Clearly, the NASA station folk would not be happy about it.

....yep. NASA will tie it up in paperwork that will take years and
megabucks to cut through, just on general principles.


But I can't imagine that the NASA station folk are too happy about
the constant stream of tourists on the Soyuz transfer missions, and
yet those still take place. I'd imagine NASA is REALLY not happy about
paying $24M a pop to take astronauts up on Soyuz, yet they just did.

They didn't "just" did; they kicked and screamed and fought against the
very idea with it. And it took time and money for the Russians to win
that battle.

With tens of megabucks riding on it, with Tito willing to wait a year or
two and with the ones following having the advantage of just trying to
do the exact same thing that was done before, it was doable.

A propulsion-system test program isn't likely to be that lavishly funded,
probably can't tolerate years between tests, and will be trying something
a little different each time.


I actually went through this one in the very last days of Mir. We had a
sensor package that the Russians were willing and able to ship up to Mir
in a timely fashion, but with ISS and NASA it was right out.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
* for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *