Has overall ignorance about astronomy increased?

In the general population, absolutely.
There are almost no people who aren't
hobbyists who can name all nine planets
or the order in which they radiated out
from the Sun, as an example. Schools
also teach less astronomy and physics and
instead concentrate on the "social" sciences
more now than 30 years ago. The kindling of
a "spark" of interest at a young age may very
well not happen, thanks to public and highschool
programs that ignore physical sciences.

For the average amateur astronomer, knowledge
of basic astronomy and observational astronomy
is less now than 30 years ago.
Based on simply talking with people
at star parties, reading internet postings,
etc, I think that basic knowledge about astronomy
has diminished. Newcomers to the hobby are one
thing, but I've frequently been surprised at
some of the questions I've heard from people I
know have been amateurs for some time.

Would I blame this on Goto? Partly.
Goto has been a Godsend for amateur astronomy in
some ways. It has kept hobbyists in the hobby
would may have very well bolted because they don't
or won't learn the sky. It has allowed imagers
easier access to dim objects for picture taking.

It also allows more viewing to be done (on a per
object basis). But the downside is that
there is a whole group of amateurs who do not know the sky and
this can include almost zero knowledge of the basic
astronomical star configuration, the constellation.
If you go to a star party, take note of the number
of people who cannot locate by sight the areas where
mainstream deepsky objects are, such as Messier objects.

Does this all matter?
As long as their Goto scopes keep working, they can remain
active in the hobby. Some will be capable of star hopping,
of learning the basic star patterns, but most won't.
The one bright spot is that all the recent missions NASA and
the Europeans have had going has probably increased basic
awareness of astronomy, even if the people don't absorb
very much from the news stories about them. At least they
know something is up there.

I guess the danger might be that there could be falling support
for agencies like NASA and pure research may suffer. Politicians
generally try to conform to the wishes of their constituents and
if they suspect there isn't much interest in NASA, NASA could see
it's budget cut.

I think the place to start is the schools. They have to return to
a greater emphasis on the physical sciences.
-Rich

Come on Rich! You can come up with a better troll than that! GOTO as the
bane of astronomy has already been beat to death.

Clear Skies

Chuck Taylor
Do you observe the moon?
Try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lunar-observing/
And the Lunar Picture of the Day http://www.lpod.org/
************************************

"RichA" wrote in message
...
In the general population, absolutely.
There are almost no people who aren't
hobbyists who can name all nine planets
or the order in which they radiated out
from the Sun, as an example. Schools
also teach less astronomy and physics and
instead concentrate on the "social" sciences
more now than 30 years ago. The kindling of
a "spark" of interest at a young age may very
well not happen, thanks to public and highschool
programs that ignore physical sciences.

For the average amateur astronomer, knowledge
of basic astronomy and observational astronomy
is less now than 30 years ago.
Based on simply talking with people
at star parties, reading internet postings,
etc, I think that basic knowledge about astronomy
has diminished. Newcomers to the hobby are one
thing, but I've frequently been surprised at
some of the questions I've heard from people I
know have been amateurs for some time.

Would I blame this on Goto? Partly.
Goto has been a Godsend for amateur astronomy in
some ways. It has kept hobbyists in the hobby
would may have very well bolted because they don't
or won't learn the sky. It has allowed imagers
easier access to dim objects for picture taking.

It also allows more viewing to be done (on a per
object basis). But the downside is that
there is a whole group of amateurs who do not know the sky and
this can include almost zero knowledge of the basic
astronomical star configuration, the constellation.
If you go to a star party, take note of the number
of people who cannot locate by sight the areas where
mainstream deepsky objects are, such as Messier objects.

Does this all matter?
As long as their Goto scopes keep working, they can remain
active in the hobby. Some will be capable of star hopping,
of learning the basic star patterns, but most won't.
The one bright spot is that all the recent missions NASA and
the Europeans have had going has probably increased basic
awareness of astronomy, even if the people don't absorb
very much from the news stories about them. At least they
know something is up there.

I guess the danger might be that there could be falling support
for agencies like NASA and pure research may suffer. Politicians
generally try to conform to the wishes of their constituents and
if they suspect there isn't much interest in NASA, NASA could see
it's budget cut.

I think the place to start is the schools. They have to return to
a greater emphasis on the physical sciences.
-Rich

GOTO as the
bane of astronomy has already been beat to death.

CLT


Agreed, get use to it and get over it.

Francis Marion

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:27:02 -0800, "CLT" not@thisaddress wrote:

Come on Rich! You can come up with a better troll than that! GOTO as the
bane of astronomy has already been beat to death.

Goto isn't the bane. In fact, more people are in the hobby because of
it. It has produced astronomers who don't know as much as years ago,
but it's positives outweight that negative. The REAL blame goes to
the public school system.
-Rich

In the general population, absolutely.
There are almost

Hi Rich:

And you base this on what?

I teach at least two sections of astronomy students semester after semester,
year after year, and I'll say, "no," I don't believe they are any more
"ignorant" than they used to be. Frankly, most of the kids coming through my
classes, no matter whether they are physics majors or PE majors are fairly
knowledgeable in the basics.

The emphasis or lack of it concerning astronomy hasn't changed much (in U.S.
schools) since early 1900s, with there being a slight uptick, I think in the
60s.

I don't know about the general population, but the general population of
college students certainly can name the planets in their proper "order."

Same goes for amateurs...'bout the same as they were 20 years ago or 30.

No, _goto does not mean the end of NASA or western civilization_, old buddy.
;-)
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
Like SCTs and MCTs?
Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers!
Goto http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index.html

In article ,
RichA wrote:

In the general population, absolutely.
There are almost no people who aren't
hobbyists who can name all nine planets
or the order in ......

Oh my Rich, as a troll you've really got to try harder....I mean really,
how bored are you to sit down and come up with this stuff.

And if you're not bored doing this, you're boring us doing it!!

But cheers anyway.

On 12 Nov 2004 01:23:33 GMT, (Rod Mollise) wrote:

In the general population, absolutely.
There are almost

Hi Rich:

And you base this on what?

I teach at least two sections of astronomy students semester after semester,
year after year, and I'll say, "no," I don't believe they are any more
"ignorant" than they used to be. Frankly, most of the kids coming through my
classes, no matter whether they are physics majors or PE majors are fairly
knowledgeable in the basics.

The emphasis or lack of it concerning astronomy hasn't changed much (in U.S.
schools) since early 1900s, with there being a slight uptick, I think in the
60s.

Sure it has. The uptick in the 1960s makes sense, America was just
getting into space. But the emphasis on social sciences started in
the 1970s has not waned.
-Rich

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:51:16 GMT, deluxe wrote:

In article ,
RichA wrote:

In the general population, absolutely.
There are almost no people who aren't
hobbyists who can name all nine planets
or the order in ......

Oh my Rich, as a troll you've really got to try harder....I mean really,
how bored are you to sit down and come up with this stuff.

And if you're not bored doing this, you're boring us doing it!!

An yet, you read it, commented on it, and you'll probably see this
post too. Odd behaviour, for someone bored of a subject. You must
be...bored!

In article ,
RichA wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:51:16 GMT, deluxe wrote:

In article ,
RichA wrote:

In the general population, absolutely.
There are almost no people who aren't
hobbyists who can name all nine planets
or the order in ......

Oh my Rich, as a troll you've really got to try harder....I mean really,
how bored are you to sit down and come up with this stuff.

And if you're not bored doing this, you're boring us doing it!!

An yet, you read it, commented on it, and you'll probably see this
post too. Odd behaviour, for someone bored of a subject. You must
be...bored!

FISH ON!!!!

RichA wrote:

In the general population, absolutely.
There are almost no people who aren't
hobbyists who can name all nine planets
or the order in which they radiated out
from the Sun, as an example. Schools
also teach less astronomy and physics and
instead concentrate on the "social" sciences
more now than 30 years ago. The kindling of
a "spark" of interest at a young age may very
well not happen, thanks to public and highschool
programs that ignore physical sciences.

For the average amateur astronomer, knowledge
of basic astronomy and observational astronomy
is less now than 30 years ago.
Based on simply talking with people
at star parties, reading internet postings,
etc, I think that basic knowledge about astronomy
has diminished. Newcomers to the hobby are one
thing, but I've frequently been surprised at
some of the questions I've heard from people I
know have been amateurs for some time.

Would I blame this on Goto? Partly.

Baloney. You might as well blame the "broom".

If anything, kids are growing up with more media attention on space and
celestial realtiies, physics in schools, better math, and most schools
now
even own a telescope and use it, so exposure is greater than previously.



I think there are more kids better informed, than before (say compared
to
the 1950's).

And their lives and livlihoods will depend on it - and they know it!

You will notice I didnt even touch on the computer in all of this. The
computer is many peoples best telescope.
Rob




Goto has been a Godsend for amateur astronomy in
some ways. It has kept hobbyists in the hobby
would may have very well bolted because they don't
or won't learn the sky. It has allowed imagers
easier access to dim objects for picture taking.

It also allows more viewing to be done (on a per
object basis). But the downside is that
there is a whole group of amateurs who do not know the sky and
this can include almost zero knowledge of the basic
astronomical star configuration, the constellation.
If you go to a star party, take note of the number
of people who cannot locate by sight the areas where
mainstream deepsky objects are, such as Messier objects.

Does this all matter?
As long as their Goto scopes keep working, they can remain
active in the hobby. Some will be capable of star hopping,
of learning the basic star patterns, but most won't.
The one bright spot is that all the recent missions NASA and
the Europeans have had going has probably increased basic
awareness of astronomy, even if the people don't absorb
very much from the news stories about them. At least they
know something is up there.

I guess the danger might be that there could be falling support
for agencies like NASA and pure research may suffer. Politicians
generally try to conform to the wishes of their constituents and
if they suspect there isn't much interest in NASA, NASA could see
it's budget cut.

I think the place to start is the schools. They have to return to
a greater emphasis on the physical sciences.
-Rich