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  #51  
Old May 23rd 06, 08:53 PM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Jim Kingdon wrote:

Up on Mars, The amazing immortal Opportunity Rover is closing in on
the half-mile-wide Victoria Crater:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12875359/



Ah, I didn't realize it was still driving during the winter (I knew it
didn't need to worry as much as Spirit, being in a more equatorial
location, but I didn't know that it would still be able to move).


They really lucked out with those dust devils cleaning off the solar
array periodically for them.
In fact, other than that software glitch at the beginning, both these
missions have been the antitheses of the "Great Martian Ghoul" effect
and have been very lucky all along, right from the start in the case of
Opportunity rolling into the geologically interesting crater on landing.

That's a nice summary of where things are now; another source is
http://www.marstoday.com/news/news.html?mid=58

There's a picture from Opportunity which shows that Victoria Crater is
now within view:
http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=20635


Rover headquarters is he http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html
And all the raw images from the rover cameras are posted he
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/
I hope at some point they stick all the images from the navigation
cameras together into a movie so that you can see the view out of the
front of the rovers as they traverse the Martian surface from landing
until now.
I wouldn't be surprised if they do that at the end of each rover's
lifetime.
At the moment we've received a total of 82,912 images from Spirit, and
71,842 images from Opportunity.

Pat

  #52  
Old May 23rd 06, 09:19 PM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Default Mars and Africa

Rand Simberg wrote:

Here, Pat. Let's watch you attack Professor (and former head of the
Executive Committee of the National Space Society) Glenn Reynolds now
(since you obviously are incapable of responding to the substance).

http://instapundit.com/archives/022447.php




As I wrote earlier, this is off-topic, and I'm not going to post on it
anymore; As to why a statement on international politics by the former
head of the Executive Committee of the National Space Society should
carry such weight (maybe we could get the Center For International
Policy to give us some input on future Mars probe landing sites) is a
bit beyond me, but anyway...
As a final comment, lets play "Goose-Gander" with this statement by Bush
from that page you cited:

"Different threats require different strategies. In Iran we continue to
see a government that represses its people, pursues weapons of mass
destruction and supports terror.
We also see Iranian citizens risking intimidation and death as they
speak out for liberty and human rights and democracy. Iranians, like all
people, have a right to choose their own government, and determine their
own destiny, and the United States supports their aspirations to live in
freedom. . . .
And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of Iraq:
Your enemy is not surrounding your country, your enemy is ruling your
country.
And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of
your liberation. . . .
Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every
person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not
America's gift to the world; it is God's gift to humanity."

Now, let's see how Americans would react to this speech by Iranian
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:

"Different threats require different strategies. In America we continue
to see a government that represses its people, pursues weapons of mass
destruction and supports terror.
We also see American citizens risking intimidation and death as they
speak out for liberty and human rights and democracy. Americans, like
all people, have a right to choose their own government, and determine
their own destiny, and the Islamic Republic Of Iran supports their
aspirations to live in freedom. . . .
And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of
America: Your enemy is not surrounding your country, your enemy is
ruling your country.
And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of
your liberation. . . .
Iranians are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every
person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not
Iran's gift to the world; it is Allah's gift to humanity."

That would probably really **** us off, wouldn't it?
It's insulting and condescending at the same time.
In fact, if the Iranian President made that speech, I'll bet Bush's poll
numbers would take a noticeable upward turn immediately.
So that was a really smart thing to say wasn't it? All it probably did
was galvanize more support for the Iranian president among the Iranians.

Pat

  #53  
Old May 23rd 06, 09:31 PM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Default Mars and Africa

On Tue, 23 May 2006 16:19:33 -0400, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

Here, Pat. Let's watch you attack Professor (and former head of the
Executive Committee of the National Space Society) Glenn Reynolds now
(since you obviously are incapable of responding to the substance).

http://instapundit.com/archives/022447.php




As I wrote earlier, this is off-topic, and I'm not going to post on it
anymore; As to why a statement on international politics by the former
head of the Executive Committee of the National Space Society should
carry such weight


I wasn't making an argument from authority, other than to point out
that it wasn't an administration sock puppet, which seemed to be what
you were whining about the last time. Once again, you seem unable to
address the substance of the argument, but I'll let you off, since it
is indeed off topic. I hope that you'll refrain from repeating this
nonsense here in the future. I won't expect it, though.

Now, let's see how Americans would react to this speech by Iranian
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:

"Different threats require different strategies. In America we continue
to see a government that represses its people, pursues weapons of mass
destruction and supports terror.
We also see American citizens risking intimidation and death as they
speak out for liberty and human rights and democracy. Americans, like
all people, have a right to choose their own government, and determine
their own destiny, and the Islamic Republic Of Iran supports their
aspirations to live in freedom. . . .
And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of
America: Your enemy is not surrounding your country, your enemy is
ruling your country.
And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of
your liberation. . . .
Iranians are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every
person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not
Iran's gift to the world; it is Allah's gift to humanity."

That would probably really **** us off, wouldn't it?


Of course, for good reason.

It's insulting and condescending at the same time.
In fact, if the Iranian President made that speech, I'll bet Bush's poll
numbers would take a noticeable upward turn immediately.
So that was a really smart thing to say wasn't it? All it probably did
was galvanize more support for the Iranian president among the Iranians.


This only shows how little you understand about the Iranians. Unlike
you, they're smart enough to know that they *really do* live under a
theocratic dictatorship. The notion that you can see the situation as
symmetrical is...breathtaking. And again, a demonstration of why it's
difficult to take you seriously.

  #54  
Old May 27th 06, 08:54 PM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Default Mars and Africa

On or about Tue, 23 May 2006 07:33:13 -0400, Rand Simberg made the sensational claim that:
I'm one of those people, but the only thing that Libby has been
indicted for was lying to a grand jury, which has nothing to do with
Dick Cheney's notes. I'm still waiting for this to turn into a real
story.


Yeah, lying to a grand jury is no big deal, is it? It's not as if grand juries
have anything to do with the rule of law.
--
This is a siggy | To E-mail, do note | Just because something
It's properly formatted | who you mean to reply-to | is possible, doesn't
No person, none, care | and it will reach me | mean it can happen

  #55  
Old May 27th 06, 10:28 PM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Default Mars and Africa

LooseChanj wrote:

:On or about Tue, 23 May 2006 07:33:13 -0400, Rand Simberg made the sensational claim that:
: I'm one of those people, but the only thing that Libby has been
: indicted for was lying to a grand jury, which has nothing to do with
: Dick Cheney's notes. I'm still waiting for this to turn into a real
: story.
:
:Yeah, lying to a grand jury is no big deal, is it? It's not as if grand juries
:have anything to do with the rule of law.

Apparently they don't, if the Bill Clinton experience is any guide for
the rest of us.

And they can't even show a deliberate lie by Libby, as they could with
Bill Clinton. He apparently misremembered something and didn't avail
himself of an opportunity to correct it.

--
"It's always different. It's always complex. But at some point,
somebody has to draw the line. And that somebody is always me....
I am the law."
-- Buffy, The Vampire Slayer

  #56  
Old May 27th 06, 10:55 PM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Default Mars and Africa

On Sat, 27 May 2006 15:54:37 -0400, in a place far, far away,
LooseChanj made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

On or about Tue, 23 May 2006 07:33:13 -0400, Rand Simberg made the sensational claim that:
I'm one of those people, but the only thing that Libby has been
indicted for was lying to a grand jury, which has nothing to do with
Dick Cheney's notes. I'm still waiting for this to turn into a real
story.


Yeah, lying to a grand jury is no big deal, is it? It's not as if grand juries
have anything to do with the rule of law.


I didn't say it was no big deal. I said I was waiting for Dick
Cheney's notes to turn into a story. Nothing in them should be of
surprise to anyone who's been following this, and nothing in them
speaks to Cheney's (or even Libby's) guilt or innocence of anything.
But in fact, if there's no underlying crime, it's not clear why lying
to a grand jury would be a big deal in this case, and so far, that's
the only crime alledged.

  #57  
Old May 27th 06, 11:26 PM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Default Mars and Africa

LooseChanj wrote:

I'm one of those people, but the only thing that Libby has been
indicted for was lying to a grand jury, which has nothing to do with
Dick Cheney's notes. I'm still waiting for this to turn into a real
story.



Yeah, lying to a grand jury is no big deal, is it? It's not as if grand juries
have anything to do with the rule of law.



Didn't someone almost get impeached for lying under oath in the past few
years? :-)

Pat

  #58  
Old May 27th 06, 11:32 PM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Default Mars and Africa

Fred J. McCall wrote:


Apparently they don't, if the Bill Clinton experience is any guide for
the rest of us.

And they can't even show a deliberate lie by Libby, as they could with
Bill Clinton. He apparently misremembered something and didn't avail
himself of an opportunity to correct it.



How do we know if Bill Clinton didn't just misremember that incident
with Monica?
He had a lot on his mind, and the whole thing may have just not have
been enough to make any big impression on him.
(cut to Monica: "NO BIG IMPRESSION!? I WAS BETTER THAN THAT!!") :-D

Pat

  #59  
Old May 28th 06, 12:14 AM posted to sci.space.moderated
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Default Mars and Africa

On Sat, 27 May 2006 18:26:55 -0400, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

LooseChanj wrote:

I'm one of those people, but the only thing that Libby has been
indicted for was lying to a grand jury, which has nothing to do with
Dick Cheney's notes. I'm still waiting for this to turn into a real
story.



Yeah, lying to a grand jury is no big deal, is it? It's not as if grand juries
have anything to do with the rule of law.



Didn't someone almost get impeached for lying under oath in the past few
years? :-)


He did get impeached. Sadly, he wasn't removed. As I said, I didn't
say it wasn't a big deal.

 




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