Fate of Italian Polaris Missiles

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:18:06 -0500, OM wrote:

...I miss Henry not being here, but I miss it even more when you post
so damn rarely, Mary.

....Wait. Did I say that right?


OM
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:08:48 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

That's not the train one, that's "Shell Game" - where the missiles were
carried around on giant trucks that drove around between
blast-resistant surface shelters on a random basis, possibly using
full-weight decoy trucks with no missile aboard also.

....Originally the plan called for trains. The "Shell Game" truck
version came about a year after the TV and print stories. Probably
should have mentioned that, eh?


OM
--
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] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
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On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:01:49 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

It was cunning names on the side of trucks like that got me my job with
The Impossible Mission Force. ;-)

....Whose first team leader lost his job because his Orthodox Jewish
status wouldn't let him work on the Sabbath :-P

OM
--
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] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
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"John" wrote in message
...
On Jun 29, 11:45 pm, "Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)"
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:26:49 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:
Derek Lyons wrote, in response to someone else:
Specifically, why not? You will need to find a way to support the base
of the tube once it's elevated into launch position to take up the
recoil of the cold-launch system on firing, but other than that, your
firing solution is a lot easier to figure out, as you know your
position
down to a matter of a few feet.

The US was going to do that, only with railroad cars, for some
proposed missile system. I don't remember which missile it was, but I
remember the artists's renditions, lifted right from the viewgraphs to
the pages of AvLeak.

I think the railroad car proposal was for MInuteman I. I seem to
remember having a blue U.S. Air Force box car for my Lionel electric
train equpped with an opening roof from which a white Minuteman missle
replica would emerge. This is probably 45 years ago . . . so I will
not certify that the memories are accurate :).

This is at the USAF Museum in Dayton Ohio (picture doesn't do it justice):

Peacekeeper Rail Garrison Car
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/fac...a.asp?fsID=788

Here is a page with some history and lots of pictures (some of which look to
be the same rail car in the USAF Museum):

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/icbm/lgm-118.htm

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon

"OM" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:27:53 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

I think the heading of any land-based silo missile will be pretty much
due eastwards as the Earth rotates.

...Did this apply to ICBMs targeted between the US and the Soviets?
IIRC the majority of those flight paths went north over the Arctic
because the distance saved was greater than any benefits of launching
with the Earth's rotation could have applied.

I think OM is right. ICBM's are going for the ideal suborbital trajectory
to the target, so I don't think the earth's rotation comes into play as much
as it does for orbital launches.

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon

"OM" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:18:06 -0500, OM wrote:

...I miss Henry not being here, but I miss it even more when you post
so damn rarely, Mary.

...Wait. Did I say that right?

I think we get the picture. Luckily when Mary does post, you can be sure
that the information contained is as accurate as it can be.

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon

Fevric J. Glandules wrote:
[snip]


According to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...United_Kingdom
"Currently, British Trident commanders are able to launch their missiles
without authorisation, whereas their American colleagues cannot."

Or putting it another way. The Uk nuclear weapon launch order has
already been given. London just keeps sending the "wait until you
can see the whites of their eyes" order. The world's biggest timebomb.

Andrew Swallow

Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer) wrote:
I'm not perfect, so don't ever bet the lunch money unless I provide
some sort of documentation.



There's a famous B&W photo of a model Minuteman car with the missile
being elevated, but I haven't been able to locate it on the web yet.
The missile is exposed, not in a launch tube of any type.
One thing I wasn't expecting to find on the web was a photo of an entire
cutaway RV from a Minuteman I, showing just how complex it was
internally: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/ic...nuteman_01.jpg
I think the projections on the nose are part of the arming system, and
would be exposed as the nosecone ablated away on reentry.

Pat

John wrote:

I think the railroad car proposal was for MInuteman I.

Railroad cars were essentially proposed for each generation of USAF
solid fueled strategic missiles.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Pat Flannery wrote:

Derek Lyons wrote:
There's more to it than just range and bearing to target Pat - you
also need to be able to erect and align your guidance systems before
launching. Among other things you need very exact information about
your heading in order to do this, which turns out not to be very
simple.

I think the heading of any land-based silo missile will be pretty much
due eastwards as the Earth rotates.

'Heading' means the direction the transport vehicle (to which the
launch system is fixed) is pointed.

In the case of a road mobile system, by going to a pre-surveyed launch
site, you can then enter its position into the guidance system, and
already have the necessary guidance system input data ready to go for
several alternate targets that can be reached from that position. The
truck could be parked aimed in approximately the right direction for the
chosen target, and the launch tube itself rotated a bit after erection
till it reaches the exact desired azimuth alignment.

The problem of course being to measure the azimuth of the launch tube
to the required degree of accuracy. It's a non trivial problem. Then
there is the problem of positioning and maintaining the launch tube on
the required heading. Another non trivial problem.

Years back, you said it took around 1/2 hour to get a SLBM ready to go
from the "make ready to launch" command coming in, and in this case I
assume you would get the gyros spun up and aligned in time of crisis,
and then update their settings as things progressed.

You assume incorrectly. The USAF kept their guidance systems spun up
and aligned while alert, SLBM guidance systems however were not
powered up until we began launch preparations.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL