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Missiles Of October
"Astro" wrote in message
.. . On Wed 9 Jan 2008 wrote: enter the Light get trapped in Limbo, oftentimes for centuries. I just love this stuff. What man can say he "knows" this? You been there? Met anyone who has? Ever thought, just for a moment, that someone invented this rubbish? Why would they do that? Ohhhh, perhaps it had something to do with selling poor ignorant fools "indulgences"? |
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Missiles Of October
"Joseph R Loegering" wrote:
The doctrine of Limbo, is a false doctrine started by a Christian Crusader Catholic Pope. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I wasn't referring to worldly dogmas, but to outer darkness, you know, where grounded, near-earth souls abide in torments, as in "where the woodbine twineth, and the iceman cometh not." E.g., here's a delightful excerpt from the gospel According to Luke (interlinear translation from Jerome's Latin Vulgate), followed by someone else's relatively crude translation of a wonderful book by the historian Josephus on this very subject: "homo quidam erat dives et induebatur purpura But was a man certain to be rich, and indued in purple et bysso et epulabatur cotidie splendide et and byssus, and well feasted each day splendidly. and erat quidam mendicus nomine Lazarus qui iacebat ad to be a certain mendicant named Lazarus, who laid at ianuam eius ulceribus plenus cupiens saturari his gate, him having ulcers plenary. concupiscent to be satiated de micis quae cadebant de mensa divitis from crumbs which fell from the table of the rich man, sed et canes veniebant et lingebant ulcera eius moreover the canines did come and lick the ulcers of him. factum est autem ut moreretur mendicus et occurred to be but in order to die the mendicant, and portaretur ab angelis in sinum Abrahae mortuus to be portative by angels into the bosom of Abraham. died est autem et dives et sepultus est in to be but also the rich man, and was buried to be. in inferno elevans oculos suos cum esset in the inferno having elevated the eyes of him, when to be in tormentis videbat Abraham a longe et torments, he is seeing Abraham from a long way off, and Lazarum in sinu eius et ipse clamans Lazarus in the bosom of him. and himself having clamored dixit pater Abraham miserere mei et he is saying Father Abraham, mercy be you having on me, and mitte Lazarum ut intinguat be you sending Lazarus in order that he may be intincting extremum digiti sui in aqua ut the extremities of the digits of him in water, in order that refrigeret linguam meam quia crucior to be refrigerating the lingula of me, because it is excruciating in hac flamma et dixit illi Abraham fili recordare in this flame. and is saying to him Abraham Son, remember that quia recepisti bona in vita tua because you were receptive of the good things in the life of you, et Lazarus similiter mala nunc autem hic and Lazarus similarly of the bad things, now but in this place consolatur tu vero cruciaris et in his he is consoled, and you are verily excruciated. and in this omnibus inter nos et vos chasma magnum firmatum est wholly between us and you, a chasm great has been firmly placed, ut hii qui volunt hinc transire in order that those who are volitional from here to be transiting ad vos non possint neque inde huc toward to you not they are able, neither from thence to here transmeare et ait rogo ergo te across you are moving. and he is saying I am asking therefore you, pater ut mittas eum in domum father, in order that you to be sending him into the domicile patris mei habeo enim quinque fratres of the father of me. I am having in fact five brothers, ut testetur illis ne et ipsi in order that he should testify to them, that not also themselves veniant in locum hunc tormentorum et they are coming into the locality this of torments. and ait illi Abraham habent Mosen et prophetas he is saying to him Abraham They are having Moses and the prophets, audiant illos at ille dixit non pater let them be hearing them. but to him he is saying No, father Abraham sed si quis ex mortuis ierit ad eos Abraham, but if anyone out of the dead did go toward them, paenitentiam agent ait autem in penitence they will conduct themselves. he is saying but illi si Mosen et prophetas non audiunt neque to him If Moses and the prophets not they are hearing, neither si quis ex mortuis resurrexerit if anyone out of the dead should be resurrected credent" will they be credent. --Lucas 16:19-31, editio Vulgata "But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels appointed over them to reproach them and threaten them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them still downwards. Now those angels that are set over these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, and in effect punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just, even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it."--excerpt,'Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades'; Flavius Josephus (~37-95 AD) Armageddon Cometh, Daniel Joseph Min http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQA/AwUBR4WVKZljD7YrHM/nEQJX8wCfRNNtGaBIcdIEsYFV+01Kyz3fUPsAoNWN MWDArZsIJ5oyI0lyXcQ6ClBj =8ito -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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Missiles Of October
"Joseph R Loegering" wrote:
The doctrine of Limbo, is a false doctrine started by a Christian Crusader Catholic Pope. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I wasn't referring to worldly dogmas, but to outer darkness, you know, where grounded, near-earth souls abide in torments, as in "where the woodbine twineth, and the iceman cometh not." E.g., here's a delightful excerpt from the gospel According to Luke (interlinear translation from Jerome's Latin Vulgate), followed by someone else's relatively crude translation of a wonderful book by the historian Josephus on this very subject: "homo quidam erat dives et induebatur purpura But was a man certain to be rich, and indued in purple et bysso et epulabatur cotidie splendide et and byssus, and well feasted each day splendidly. and erat quidam mendicus nomine Lazarus qui iacebat ad to be a certain mendicant named Lazarus, who laid at ianuam eius ulceribus plenus cupiens saturari his gate, him having ulcers plenary. concupiscent to be satiated de micis quae cadebant de mensa divitis from crumbs which fell from the table of the rich man, sed et canes veniebant et lingebant ulcera eius moreover the canines did come and lick the ulcers of him. factum est autem ut moreretur mendicus et occurred to be but in order to die the mendicant, and portaretur ab angelis in sinum Abrahae mortuus to be portative by angels into the bosom of Abraham. died est autem et dives et sepultus est in to be but also the rich man, and was buried to be. in inferno elevans oculos suos cum esset in the inferno having elevated the eyes of him, when to be in tormentis videbat Abraham a longe et torments, he is seeing Abraham from a long way off, and Lazarum in sinu eius et ipse clamans Lazarus in the bosom of him. and himself having clamored dixit pater Abraham miserere mei et he is saying Father Abraham, mercy be you having on me, and mitte Lazarum ut intinguat be you sending Lazarus in order that he may be intincting extremum digiti sui in aqua ut the extremities of the digits of him in water, in order that refrigeret linguam meam quia crucior to be refrigerating the lingula of me, because it is excruciating in hac flamma et dixit illi Abraham fili recordare in this flame. and is saying to him Abraham Son, remember that quia recepisti bona in vita tua because you were receptive of the good things in the life of you, et Lazarus similiter mala nunc autem hic and Lazarus similarly of the bad things, now but in this place consolatur tu vero cruciaris et in his he is consoled, and you are verily excruciated. and in this omnibus inter nos et vos chasma magnum firmatum est wholly between us and you, a chasm great has been firmly placed, ut hii qui volunt hinc transire in order that those who are volitional from here to be transiting ad vos non possint neque inde huc toward to you not they are able, neither from thence to here transmeare et ait rogo ergo te across you are moving. and he is saying I am asking therefore you, pater ut mittas eum in domum father, in order that you to be sending him into the domicile patris mei habeo enim quinque fratres of the father of me. I am having in fact five brothers, ut testetur illis ne et ipsi in order that he should testify to them, that not also themselves veniant in locum hunc tormentorum et they are coming into the locality this of torments. and ait illi Abraham habent Mosen et prophetas he is saying to him Abraham They are having Moses and the prophets, audiant illos at ille dixit non pater let them be hearing them. but to him he is saying No, father Abraham sed si quis ex mortuis ierit ad eos Abraham, but if anyone out of the dead did go toward them, paenitentiam agent ait autem in penitence they will conduct themselves. he is saying but illi si Mosen et prophetas non audiunt neque to him If Moses and the prophets not they are hearing, neither si quis ex mortuis resurrexerit if anyone out of the dead should be resurrected credent" will they be credent. --Lucas 16:19-31, editio Vulgata "But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels appointed over them to reproach them and threaten them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them still downwards. Now those angels that are set over these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, and in effect punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just, even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it."--excerpt,'Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades'; Flavius Josephus (~37-95 AD) Armageddon Cometh, Daniel Joseph Min http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQA/AwUBR4WVKZljD7YrHM/nEQJX8wCfRNNtGaBIcdIEsYFV+01Kyz3fUPsAoNWN MWDArZsIJ5oyI0lyXcQ6ClBj =8ito -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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Missiles Of October
On Jan 9, 10:16 pm, (Anonymous) wrote:
"Joseph R Loegering" wrote: The doctrine of Limbo, is a false doctrine started by a Christian Crusader Catholic Pope. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I wasn't referring to worldly dogmas, but to outer darkness, you know, where grounded, near-earth souls abide in torments, as in "where the woodbine twineth, and the iceman cometh not." E.g., here's a delightful excerpt from the gospel According to Luke (interlinear translation from Jerome's Latin Vulgate), followed by someone else's relatively crude translation of a wonderful book by the historian Josephus on this very subject: "homo quidam erat dives et induebatur purpura But was a man certain to be rich, and indued in purple et bysso et epulabatur cotidie splendide et and byssus, and well feasted each day splendidly. and erat quidam mendicus nomine Lazarus qui iacebat ad to be a certain mendicant named Lazarus, who laid at ianuam eius ulceribus plenus cupiens saturari his gate, him having ulcers plenary. concupiscent to be satiated de micis quae cadebant de mensa divitis from crumbs which fell from the table of the rich man, sed et canes veniebant et lingebant ulcera eius moreover the canines did come and lick the ulcers of him. factum est autem ut moreretur mendicus et occurred to be but in order to die the mendicant, and portaretur ab angelis in sinum Abrahae mortuus to be portative by angels into the bosom of Abraham. died est autem et dives et sepultus est in to be but also the rich man, and was buried to be. in inferno elevans oculos suos cum esset in the inferno having elevated the eyes of him, when to be in tormentis videbat Abraham a longe et torments, he is seeing Abraham from a long way off, and Lazarum in sinu eius et ipse clamans Lazarus in the bosom of him. and himself having clamored dixit pater Abraham miserere mei et he is saying Father Abraham, mercy be you having on me, and mitte Lazarum ut intinguat be you sending Lazarus in order that he may be intincting extremum digiti sui in aqua ut the extremities of the digits of him in water, in order that refrigeret linguam meam quia crucior to be refrigerating the lingula of me, because it is excruciating in hac flamma et dixit illi Abraham fili recordare in this flame. and is saying to him Abraham Son, remember that quia recepisti bona in vita tua because you were receptive of the good things in the life of you, et Lazarus similiter mala nunc autem hic and Lazarus similarly of the bad things, now but in this place consolatur tu vero cruciaris et in his he is consoled, and you are verily excruciated. and in this omnibus inter nos et vos chasma magnum firmatum est wholly between us and you, a chasm great has been firmly placed, ut hii qui volunt hinc transire in order that those who are volitional from here to be transiting ad vos non possint neque inde huc toward to you not they are able, neither from thence to here transmeare et ait rogo ergo te across you are moving. and he is saying I am asking therefore you, pater ut mittas eum in domum father, in order that you to be sending him into the domicile patris mei habeo enim quinque fratres of the father of me. I am having in fact five brothers, ut testetur illis ne et ipsi in order that he should testify to them, that not also themselves veniant in locum hunc tormentorum et they are coming into the locality this of torments. and ait illi Abraham habent Mosen et prophetas he is saying to him Abraham They are having Moses and the prophets, audiant illos at ille dixit non pater let them be hearing them. but to him he is saying No, father Abraham sed si quis ex mortuis ierit ad eos Abraham, but if anyone out of the dead did go toward them, paenitentiam agent ait autem in penitence they will conduct themselves. he is saying but illi si Mosen et prophetas non audiunt neque to him If Moses and the prophets not they are hearing, neither si quis ex mortuis resurrexerit if anyone out of the dead should be resurrected credent" will they be credent. --Lucas 16:19-31, editio Vulgata "But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels appointed over them to reproach them and threaten them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them still downwards. Now those angels that are set over these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, and in effect punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just, even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it."--excerpt,'Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades'; Flavius Josephus (~37-95 AD) Armageddon Cometh, Daniel Joseph Minhttp://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQA/AwUBR4WVKZljD7YrHM/nEQJX8wCfRNNtGaBIcdIEsYFV+01Kyz3fUPsAoNWN MWDArZsIJ5oyI0lyXcQ6ClBj =8ito -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- "December morning, Very cold, A plane over Hawaii, A little nip in the air." |
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Missiles Of October
On Jan 9, 6:20 pm, "Vince Morgan" vinharAtHereoptusnet.com.au wrote:
Ohhhh, perhaps it had something to do with selling poor ignorant fools "indulgences"? No, we have plenty of evidence that Christianity existed hundreds of years before the sale of indulgences was first instituted to finance the Crusades. The general *idea* may have something to it, but your specifics are 'way off historically. John Savard |
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Missiles Of October
On Jan 10, 2:14 am, Don Stockbauer wrote:
"December morning, Very cold, A plane over Hawaii, A little nip in the air." Four lines. Hardly a proper _haiku_. John Savard |
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Missiles Of October
On Jan 9, 4:07*pm, (Astro) wrote:
On Wed 9 Jan 2008 wrote: * * * * Reading Bill Bryson's latest book where, among other things, he * * * * remembers his childhood experience of the Cuban Missile Crisis, I got * * to thinking of my own memories of that episode. I was nine at the * time, and living in the North of England. * * * * * * * * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- *In October of '62, I'd just turned 5, and was living in Bainbridge * * * * *Ohio, USA. I have no conscious recollection about the Cuban missile * * * *crisis from that time, though I do remember watching cartoons, and *Romper Room, Captain Kangaroo, etc. *LOL! Where ignorance is bliss... * * * * * The general opinion then was that if a nuclear war broke out, Britain * * would be hit pretty heavily, and so I vividly remember wandering around the streets one Friday afternoon (October 26th?) thinking that we probably had only a few hours to live - it was horrible. The one * * * thought that was uppermost in mu mind was 'what will the first sign * * be?' That thought has stayed with me ever since. * * If a nuclear strike happened a few miles away, I suppose the first * * * sign would be the sky lighting up in an almighty flash. But if you * * just happened to be on the missiles' flight-path, would you get to see them before they exploded, and thus have a chance to say to yourself * * * * * "well, this is it"? And it you saw them, what would they probably look like? * * * * * I heard once that ICBM's come in at 18,000mph, so at that speed you'd * * * * * probably never see them till they hit, but then, I know next to * * * * * * nothing about this subject. * * * I'd be very interested to hear anyone's comments on this. * * * *Here're a couple links on the subject: *http://www.altavista.com/web/results....org/wiki/ICBM *Thus, if a nuclear missile were launched toward a populated region *in today's world, it's possible we might hear about it on the news * * * * *before those in the target region hear the incoming missile itself. * * * * *For them within the immediate kill radius, a mundane bright light: *then immediately (if not sooner) the Light at the end of the Dark * * * * *tunnel. As for who goes directly into the Light, vs. who does not, *that's a matter for each departed soul to decide. Those who won't * * * * *enter the Light get trapped in Limbo, oftentimes for centuries. * * * * * *Any way you look at it, whether sinners succumb quickly or slowly * * * *to the effects of thermonuclear detonation, radiation, etc., that *is the least of their problems. Worse torments await them in Hell. *Furthermore, thinking as one apocalyptic millenarianist Christian, *I wouldn't worry yourself too much about nuclear war, as biblical * * * *and other prophecies are--by definition of prophecy--in concerted * * * *agreement, wholly of one consensus, that vastly greater default of *mortal humans is made by biological weapons, than by some limited * * * *nuclear strikes (the most significant of which is upon WOB world *headquarters). And at the apex of the great tribulation, incoming * * * *about seven stadia along its major axis wipes out coastal regions * *worldwide. But then, that's merely my deduction of the aforesaid. * * * * * * * "I could be wrong now, but I don't think so." * * * * * * * *--'It's a Jungle out There', Randy Newman * * * *Armageddon Cometh, * * *Daniel Joseph Min *http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/* * -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQA/AwUBR4U0pJljD7YrHM/nEQJyaQCgsUlnZLoB4zodIA2keWGPKX4j2hUAoNOp 4EPownWHkmJe7gLdpv1z//PW =LqGh -----END PGP SIGNATURE------ Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - During those dark days I was a college physics student, and computation of the flight time for a nuclear missile launced from Cuba to anywhere along the east coast of the US scared the crap out of us. The time of flight was so extremely short that there was no time for anyone to even seek shelter. These missiles in Cuba had to go, even if it involved global war! Turns out that this was simply a negotiating game played by the Russians in order to force us to remove our missiles from Turkey that threatened the USSR, which of course we agreed to. So both sides withdrew their missiles. Somehow the phrase "Mexican Standoff" comes to mind, but it was pretty worrysome at the time. One minor correction IIRC, these were not ICBMs in Cuba, just medium range nuclear missiles known as SS-4 MRBMs. Still, a few well placed hits by several of these would likely wipe out the entire east coast of the US. Being a physicist, I really can't help but wonder how you see theology or and form of religion entering this historic event. Neither side was composed of what any reasonable person would describe as "sinners", and both sides reponded rationally with mutually acceptable results. US missiles were removed from Turkey, and the Russian missiles were removed from Cuba. If you ask me, both sides were winners in the little game of Poker. If you ask me, I really in hindsight don't believe that the Missiles of October would have produced nuclear war, although it could have resulted in a massive air and land assault in Cuba with the loss of many lives, and I believe that the Russians realized this as a distinct possibility. Because of mutually assured destruction (MAD), being sane, neither government wanted to elevate the Cold War into nuclear combat. In a way, MAD insured society. A final thing to consider is that the Cold War actually helped to heat many homes in my generation, by generating full employment. I'm a Republican, but I have to thank John F. Kennedy for two major accomplishments, first, his handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Second, his mandate to put a man on the moon and return him safely to earth, within 10 years from the date he made this speech. Harry C. |
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