Missiles Of October

On Wed 9 Jan 2008 wrote:
Reading Bill Bryson's latest book where, among other things, he
remembers his childhood experience of the Cuban Missile Crisis, I got
to thinking of my own memories of that episode. I was nine at the
time, and living in the North of England.

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In October of '62, I'd just turned 5, and was living in Bainbridge
Ohio, USA. I have no conscious recollection about the Cuban missile
crisis from that time, though I do remember watching cartoons, and
Romper Room, Captain Kangaroo, etc. LOL! Where ignorance is bliss...

The general opinion then was that if a nuclear war broke out, Britain
would be hit pretty heavily, and so I vividly remember wandering
around the streets one Friday afternoon (October 26th?) thinking that
we probably had only a few hours to live - it was horrible. The one
thought that was uppermost in mu mind was 'what will the first sign
be?' That thought has stayed with me ever since.
If a nuclear strike happened a few miles away, I suppose the first
sign would be the sky lighting up in an almighty flash. But if you
just happened to be on the missiles' flight-path, would you get to see
them before they exploded, and thus have a chance to say to yourself
"well, this is it"? And it you saw them, what would they probably look
like?
I heard once that ICBM's come in at 18,000mph, so at that speed you'd
probably never see them till they hit, but then, I know next to
nothing about this subject.
I'd be very interested to hear anyone's comments on this.

Here're a couple links on the subject:
http://www.altavista.com/web/results...=&lh=&nbq= 50
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICBM

Thus, if a nuclear missile were launched toward a populated region
in today's world, it's possible we might hear about it on the news
before those in the target region hear the incoming missile itself.
For them within the immediate kill radius, a mundane bright light:
then immediately (if not sooner) the Light at the end of the Dark
tunnel. As for who goes directly into the Light, vs. who does not,
that's a matter for each departed soul to decide. Those who won't
enter the Light get trapped in Limbo, oftentimes for centuries.
Any way you look at it, whether sinners succumb quickly or slowly
to the effects of thermonuclear detonation, radiation, etc., that
is the least of their problems. Worse torments await them in Hell.

Furthermore, thinking as one apocalyptic millenarianist Christian,
I wouldn't worry yourself too much about nuclear war, as biblical
and other prophecies are--by definition of prophecy--in concerted
agreement, wholly of one consensus, that vastly greater default of
mortal humans is made by biological weapons, than by some limited
nuclear strikes (the most significant of which is upon WOB world
headquarters). And at the apex of the great tribulation, incoming
about seven stadia along its major axis wipes out coastal regions
worldwide. But then, that's merely my deduction of the aforesaid.

"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so."
--'It's a Jungle out There', Randy Newman

Armageddon Cometh,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/

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"Astro" wrote in message
.. .

On Wed 9 Jan 2008 wrote:

enter the Light get trapped in Limbo, oftentimes for centuries.

I just love this stuff. What man can say he "knows" this? You been there?
Met anyone who has? Ever thought, just for a moment, that someone invented
this rubbish? Why would they do that? Ohhhh, perhaps it had something to
do with selling poor ignorant fools "indulgences"?

"Joseph R Loegering" wrote:
The doctrine of Limbo, is a false doctrine started by a Christian Crusader
Catholic Pope.
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I wasn't referring to worldly dogmas, but to outer darkness,
you know, where grounded, near-earth souls abide in torments,
as in "where the woodbine twineth, and the iceman cometh not."

E.g., here's a delightful excerpt from the gospel According
to Luke (interlinear translation from Jerome's Latin Vulgate),
followed by someone else's relatively crude translation of a
wonderful book by the historian Josephus on this very subject:

"homo quidam erat dives et induebatur purpura
But was a man certain to be rich, and indued in purple

et bysso et epulabatur cotidie splendide et
and byssus, and well feasted each day splendidly. and

erat quidam mendicus nomine Lazarus qui iacebat ad
to be a certain mendicant named Lazarus, who laid at

ianuam eius ulceribus plenus cupiens saturari
his gate, him having ulcers plenary. concupiscent to be satiated

de micis quae cadebant de mensa divitis
from crumbs which fell from the table of the rich man,

sed et canes veniebant et lingebant ulcera eius
moreover the canines did come and lick the ulcers of him.

factum est autem ut moreretur mendicus et
occurred to be but in order to die the mendicant, and

portaretur ab angelis in sinum Abrahae mortuus
to be portative by angels into the bosom of Abraham. died

est autem et dives et sepultus est in
to be but also the rich man, and was buried to be. in

inferno elevans oculos suos cum esset in
the inferno having elevated the eyes of him, when to be in

tormentis videbat Abraham a longe et
torments, he is seeing Abraham from a long way off, and

Lazarum in sinu eius et ipse clamans
Lazarus in the bosom of him. and himself having clamored

dixit pater Abraham miserere mei et
he is saying Father Abraham, mercy be you having on me, and

mitte Lazarum ut intinguat
be you sending Lazarus in order that he may be intincting

extremum digiti sui in aqua ut
the extremities of the digits of him in water, in order that

refrigeret linguam meam quia crucior
to be refrigerating the lingula of me, because it is excruciating

in hac flamma et dixit illi Abraham fili recordare
in this flame. and is saying to him Abraham Son, remember that

quia recepisti bona in vita tua
because you were receptive of the good things in the life of you,

et Lazarus similiter mala nunc autem hic
and Lazarus similarly of the bad things, now but in this place

consolatur tu vero cruciaris et in his
he is consoled, and you are verily excruciated. and in this

omnibus inter nos et vos chasma magnum firmatum est
wholly between us and you, a chasm great has been firmly placed,

ut hii qui volunt hinc transire
in order that those who are volitional from here to be transiting

ad vos non possint neque inde huc
toward to you not they are able, neither from thence to here

transmeare et ait rogo ergo te
across you are moving. and he is saying I am asking therefore you,

pater ut mittas eum in domum
father, in order that you to be sending him into the domicile

patris mei habeo enim quinque fratres
of the father of me. I am having in fact five brothers,

ut testetur illis ne et ipsi
in order that he should testify to them, that not also themselves

veniant in locum hunc tormentorum et
they are coming into the locality this of torments. and

ait illi Abraham habent Mosen et prophetas
he is saying to him Abraham They are having Moses and the prophets,

audiant illos at ille dixit non pater
let them be hearing them. but to him he is saying No, father

Abraham sed si quis ex mortuis ierit ad eos
Abraham, but if anyone out of the dead did go toward them,

paenitentiam agent ait autem
in penitence they will conduct themselves. he is saying but

illi si Mosen et prophetas non audiunt neque
to him If Moses and the prophets not they are hearing, neither

si quis ex mortuis resurrexerit
if anyone out of the dead should be resurrected

credent"
will they be credent.

--Lucas 16:19-31, editio Vulgata

"But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to
the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment,
no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners
driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels
appointed over them to reproach them and threaten
them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them
still downwards. Now those angels that are set over
these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell
itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually
hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the
hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of
this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great
prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful
expectation of a future judgment, and in effect
punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see
the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just,
even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and
large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man
that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted,
nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to
attempt it, pass over it."--excerpt,'Discourse to the
Greeks concerning Hades'; Flavius Josephus (~37-95 AD)

Armageddon Cometh,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/

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"Joseph R Loegering" wrote:
The doctrine of Limbo, is a false doctrine started by a Christian Crusader
Catholic Pope.
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I wasn't referring to worldly dogmas, but to outer darkness,
you know, where grounded, near-earth souls abide in torments,
as in "where the woodbine twineth, and the iceman cometh not."

E.g., here's a delightful excerpt from the gospel According
to Luke (interlinear translation from Jerome's Latin Vulgate),
followed by someone else's relatively crude translation of a
wonderful book by the historian Josephus on this very subject:

"homo quidam erat dives et induebatur purpura
But was a man certain to be rich, and indued in purple

et bysso et epulabatur cotidie splendide et
and byssus, and well feasted each day splendidly. and

erat quidam mendicus nomine Lazarus qui iacebat ad
to be a certain mendicant named Lazarus, who laid at

ianuam eius ulceribus plenus cupiens saturari
his gate, him having ulcers plenary. concupiscent to be satiated

de micis quae cadebant de mensa divitis
from crumbs which fell from the table of the rich man,

sed et canes veniebant et lingebant ulcera eius
moreover the canines did come and lick the ulcers of him.

factum est autem ut moreretur mendicus et
occurred to be but in order to die the mendicant, and

portaretur ab angelis in sinum Abrahae mortuus
to be portative by angels into the bosom of Abraham. died

est autem et dives et sepultus est in
to be but also the rich man, and was buried to be. in

inferno elevans oculos suos cum esset in
the inferno having elevated the eyes of him, when to be in

tormentis videbat Abraham a longe et
torments, he is seeing Abraham from a long way off, and

Lazarum in sinu eius et ipse clamans
Lazarus in the bosom of him. and himself having clamored

dixit pater Abraham miserere mei et
he is saying Father Abraham, mercy be you having on me, and

mitte Lazarum ut intinguat
be you sending Lazarus in order that he may be intincting

extremum digiti sui in aqua ut
the extremities of the digits of him in water, in order that

refrigeret linguam meam quia crucior
to be refrigerating the lingula of me, because it is excruciating

in hac flamma et dixit illi Abraham fili recordare
in this flame. and is saying to him Abraham Son, remember that

quia recepisti bona in vita tua
because you were receptive of the good things in the life of you,

et Lazarus similiter mala nunc autem hic
and Lazarus similarly of the bad things, now but in this place

consolatur tu vero cruciaris et in his
he is consoled, and you are verily excruciated. and in this

omnibus inter nos et vos chasma magnum firmatum est
wholly between us and you, a chasm great has been firmly placed,

ut hii qui volunt hinc transire
in order that those who are volitional from here to be transiting

ad vos non possint neque inde huc
toward to you not they are able, neither from thence to here

transmeare et ait rogo ergo te
across you are moving. and he is saying I am asking therefore you,

pater ut mittas eum in domum
father, in order that you to be sending him into the domicile

patris mei habeo enim quinque fratres
of the father of me. I am having in fact five brothers,

ut testetur illis ne et ipsi
in order that he should testify to them, that not also themselves

veniant in locum hunc tormentorum et
they are coming into the locality this of torments. and

ait illi Abraham habent Mosen et prophetas
he is saying to him Abraham They are having Moses and the prophets,

audiant illos at ille dixit non pater
let them be hearing them. but to him he is saying No, father

Abraham sed si quis ex mortuis ierit ad eos
Abraham, but if anyone out of the dead did go toward them,

paenitentiam agent ait autem
in penitence they will conduct themselves. he is saying but

illi si Mosen et prophetas non audiunt neque
to him If Moses and the prophets not they are hearing, neither

si quis ex mortuis resurrexerit
if anyone out of the dead should be resurrected

credent"
will they be credent.

--Lucas 16:19-31, editio Vulgata

"But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to
the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment,
no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners
driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels
appointed over them to reproach them and threaten
them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them
still downwards. Now those angels that are set over
these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell
itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually
hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the
hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of
this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great
prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful
expectation of a future judgment, and in effect
punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see
the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just,
even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and
large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man
that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted,
nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to
attempt it, pass over it."--excerpt,'Discourse to the
Greeks concerning Hades'; Flavius Josephus (~37-95 AD)

Armageddon Cometh,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/

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On Jan 9, 10:16 pm, (Anonymous) wrote:
"Joseph R Loegering" wrote:
The doctrine of Limbo, is a false doctrine started by a Christian Crusader
Catholic Pope.

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I wasn't referring to worldly dogmas, but to outer darkness,
you know, where grounded, near-earth souls abide in torments,
as in "where the woodbine twineth, and the iceman cometh not."

E.g., here's a delightful excerpt from the gospel According
to Luke (interlinear translation from Jerome's Latin Vulgate),
followed by someone else's relatively crude translation of a
wonderful book by the historian Josephus on this very subject:

"homo quidam erat dives et induebatur purpura
But was a man certain to be rich, and indued in purple

et bysso et epulabatur cotidie splendide et
and byssus, and well feasted each day splendidly. and

erat quidam mendicus nomine Lazarus qui iacebat ad
to be a certain mendicant named Lazarus, who laid at

ianuam eius ulceribus plenus cupiens saturari
his gate, him having ulcers plenary. concupiscent to be satiated

de micis quae cadebant de mensa divitis
from crumbs which fell from the table of the rich man,

sed et canes veniebant et lingebant ulcera eius
moreover the canines did come and lick the ulcers of him.

factum est autem ut moreretur mendicus et
occurred to be but in order to die the mendicant, and

portaretur ab angelis in sinum Abrahae mortuus
to be portative by angels into the bosom of Abraham. died

est autem et dives et sepultus est in
to be but also the rich man, and was buried to be. in

inferno elevans oculos suos cum esset in
the inferno having elevated the eyes of him, when to be in

tormentis videbat Abraham a longe et
torments, he is seeing Abraham from a long way off, and

Lazarum in sinu eius et ipse clamans
Lazarus in the bosom of him. and himself having clamored

dixit pater Abraham miserere mei et
he is saying Father Abraham, mercy be you having on me, and

mitte Lazarum ut intinguat
be you sending Lazarus in order that he may be intincting

extremum digiti sui in aqua ut
the extremities of the digits of him in water, in order that

refrigeret linguam meam quia crucior
to be refrigerating the lingula of me, because it is excruciating

in hac flamma et dixit illi Abraham fili recordare
in this flame. and is saying to him Abraham Son, remember that

quia recepisti bona in vita tua
because you were receptive of the good things in the life of you,

et Lazarus similiter mala nunc autem hic
and Lazarus similarly of the bad things, now but in this place

consolatur tu vero cruciaris et in his
he is consoled, and you are verily excruciated. and in this

omnibus inter nos et vos chasma magnum firmatum est
wholly between us and you, a chasm great has been firmly placed,

ut hii qui volunt hinc transire
in order that those who are volitional from here to be transiting

ad vos non possint neque inde huc
toward to you not they are able, neither from thence to here

transmeare et ait rogo ergo te
across you are moving. and he is saying I am asking therefore you,

pater ut mittas eum in domum
father, in order that you to be sending him into the domicile

patris mei habeo enim quinque fratres
of the father of me. I am having in fact five brothers,

ut testetur illis ne et ipsi
in order that he should testify to them, that not also themselves

veniant in locum hunc tormentorum et
they are coming into the locality this of torments. and

ait illi Abraham habent Mosen et prophetas
he is saying to him Abraham They are having Moses and the prophets,

audiant illos at ille dixit non pater
let them be hearing them. but to him he is saying No, father

Abraham sed si quis ex mortuis ierit ad eos
Abraham, but if anyone out of the dead did go toward them,

paenitentiam agent ait autem
in penitence they will conduct themselves. he is saying but

illi si Mosen et prophetas non audiunt neque
to him If Moses and the prophets not they are hearing, neither

si quis ex mortuis resurrexerit
if anyone out of the dead should be resurrected

credent"
will they be credent.

--Lucas 16:19-31, editio Vulgata

"But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to
the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment,
no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners
driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels
appointed over them to reproach them and threaten
them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them
still downwards. Now those angels that are set over
these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell
itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually
hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the
hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of
this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great
prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful
expectation of a future judgment, and in effect
punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see
the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just,
even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and
large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man
that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted,
nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to
attempt it, pass over it."--excerpt,'Discourse to the
Greeks concerning Hades'; Flavius Josephus (~37-95 AD)

Armageddon Cometh,
Daniel Joseph Minhttp://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/

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"December morning,
Very cold,
A plane over Hawaii,
A little nip in the air."

On Jan 9, 6:20 pm, "Vince Morgan" vinharAtHereoptusnet.com.au wrote:
Ohhhh, perhaps it had something to
do with selling poor ignorant fools "indulgences"?

No, we have plenty of evidence that Christianity existed hundreds of
years before the sale of indulgences was first instituted to finance
the Crusades.

The general *idea* may have something to it, but your specifics are
'way off historically.

John Savard

On Jan 10, 2:14 am, Don Stockbauer wrote:

"December morning,
Very cold,
A plane over Hawaii,
A little nip in the air."

Four lines. Hardly a proper _haiku_.

John Savard

On Jan 9, 4:07*pm, (Astro) wrote:
On Wed 9 Jan 2008 wrote: * * * *

Reading Bill Bryson's latest book where, among other things, he * * * *
remembers his childhood experience of the Cuban Missile Crisis, I got * *
to thinking of my own memories of that episode. I was nine at the *
time, and living in the North of England. * * * * * * * *

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*In October of '62, I'd just turned 5, and was living in Bainbridge * * * *
*Ohio, USA. I have no conscious recollection about the Cuban missile * * *
*crisis from that time, though I do remember watching cartoons, and
*Romper Room, Captain Kangaroo, etc. *LOL! Where ignorance is bliss... * * * * *





The general opinion then was that if a nuclear war broke out, Britain * *
would be hit pretty heavily, and so I vividly remember wandering
around the streets one Friday afternoon (October 26th?) thinking that
we probably had only a few hours to live - it was horrible. The one * * *
thought that was uppermost in mu mind was 'what will the first sign * *
be?' That thought has stayed with me ever since. * *
If a nuclear strike happened a few miles away, I suppose the first * * *
sign would be the sky lighting up in an almighty flash. But if you * *
just happened to be on the missiles' flight-path, would you get to see
them before they exploded, and thus have a chance to say to yourself * * * * *
"well, this is it"? And it you saw them, what would they probably look
like? * * * * *
I heard once that ICBM's come in at 18,000mph, so at that speed you'd * * * * *
probably never see them till they hit, but then, I know next to * * * * * *
nothing about this subject. * * *
I'd be very interested to hear anyone's comments on this. * * *

*Here're a couple links on the subject:
*http://www.altavista.com/web/results....org/wiki/ICBM

*Thus, if a nuclear missile were launched toward a populated region
*in today's world, it's possible we might hear about it on the news * * * *
*before those in the target region hear the incoming missile itself. * * * *
*For them within the immediate kill radius, a mundane bright light:
*then immediately (if not sooner) the Light at the end of the Dark * * * *
*tunnel. As for who goes directly into the Light, vs. who does not,
*that's a matter for each departed soul to decide. Those who won't * * * *
*enter the Light get trapped in Limbo, oftentimes for centuries. * * * * *
*Any way you look at it, whether sinners succumb quickly or slowly * * *
*to the effects of thermonuclear detonation, radiation, etc., that
*is the least of their problems. Worse torments await them in Hell.

*Furthermore, thinking as one apocalyptic millenarianist Christian,
*I wouldn't worry yourself too much about nuclear war, as biblical * * *
*and other prophecies are--by definition of prophecy--in concerted * * *
*agreement, wholly of one consensus, that vastly greater default of
*mortal humans is made by biological weapons, than by some limited * * *
*nuclear strikes (the most significant of which is upon WOB world
*headquarters). And at the apex of the great tribulation, incoming * * *
*about seven stadia along its major axis wipes out coastal regions *
*worldwide. But then, that's merely my deduction of the aforesaid. * *

* * * * * "I could be wrong now, but I don't think so." * *
* * * * * *--'It's a Jungle out There', Randy Newman * * *

*Armageddon Cometh, * *
*Daniel Joseph Min
*http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/* *

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- Show quoted text -

During those dark days I was a college physics student, and
computation of the flight time for a nuclear missile launced from Cuba
to anywhere along the east coast of the US scared the crap out of us.
The time of flight was so extremely short that there was no time for
anyone to even seek shelter. These missiles in Cuba had to go, even if
it involved global war!

Turns out that this was simply a negotiating game played by the
Russians in order to force us to remove our missiles from Turkey that
threatened the USSR, which of course we agreed to. So both sides
withdrew their missiles.

Somehow the phrase "Mexican Standoff" comes to mind, but it was pretty
worrysome at the time.

One minor correction IIRC, these were not ICBMs in Cuba, just medium
range nuclear missiles known as SS-4 MRBMs. Still, a few well placed
hits by several of these would likely wipe out the entire east coast
of the US.

Being a physicist, I really can't help but wonder how you see theology
or and form of religion entering this historic event. Neither side was
composed of what any reasonable person would describe as "sinners",
and both sides reponded rationally with mutually acceptable results.
US missiles were removed from Turkey, and the Russian missiles were
removed from Cuba. If you ask me, both sides were winners in the
little game of Poker.

If you ask me, I really in hindsight don't believe that the Missiles
of October would have produced nuclear war, although it could have
resulted in a massive air and land assault in Cuba with the loss of
many lives, and I believe that the Russians realized this as a
distinct possibility. Because of mutually assured destruction (MAD),
being sane, neither government wanted to elevate the Cold War into
nuclear combat. In a way, MAD insured society.

A final thing to consider is that the Cold War actually helped to heat
many homes in my generation, by generating full employment.

I'm a Republican, but I have to thank John F. Kennedy for two major
accomplishments, first, his handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Second, his mandate to put a man on the moon and return him safely to
earth, within 10 years from the date he made this speech.

Harry C.