Some proposals for low cost heavy lift launchers.

RocketLab has perfected using colloidal graphite particles combined in a hydrogen peroxide base

C + 2 H2O2 -- CO2 + 2 H2O
12 + 2 x 34 = 44 + 2 x 18

So, for each 150 kg of carbon you have 850 kg of H2O2 for every tonne of propellant. The graphite occupies 66.7 liters whilst the hydrogen-peroxide occupies 586.2 liters. 652.9 liters per metric ton of propellant. A specific gravity of 1.53 kg/liter.

The carbon is The exhaust velocity of this system is 3.3 km/sec. RocketLab has perfected a colloidal silver liquid that acts as a simple method of detonation for this mixture much more efficiently than silver mesh.

http://www.rocketlab.co.nz/propulsio...onopropellant/

At these densities, and temperatures, and pressures, 3% structural fractions are possible. A 7 element system with each element 42 feet long and 7 feet in diameter and equipped with cross-feeding with 4 elements draining at lift off, 2 elements draining for second stage, and 1 element for third stage - puts up 10 tons.

On Dec 3, 9:54*pm, wrote:
RocketLab has perfected using colloidal graphite particles combined in a hydrogen peroxide base

* *C + 2 H2O2 -- *CO2 + 2 H2O
* 12 + 2 x 34 *= * *44 + 2 x 18

So, for each 150 kg of carbon you have 850 kg of H2O2 for every tonne of propellant. *The graphite occupies 66.7 liters whilst the hydrogen-peroxide occupies 586.2 liters. *652.9 liters per metric ton of propellant. *A specific gravity of 1.53 kg/liter.

The carbon is The exhaust velocity of this system is 3.3 km/sec. *RocketLab has perfected a colloidal silver liquid that acts as a simple method of detonation for this mixture much more efficiently than silver mesh.

http://www.rocketlab.co.nz/propulsio...onopropellant/

At these densities, and temperatures, and pressures, 3% structural fractions are possible. *A 7 element system with each element 42 feet long and 7 feet in diameter and equipped with cross-feeding with 4 elements draining at lift off, 2 elements draining for second stage, and 1 element for third stage - puts up 10 tons.

It's good having you back in this Usenet cesspool of mostly denial and
obfuscation. What you propose here as using H2O2 and pure carbon
sounds like a perfectly good package deal, though I doubt most will
pay any attention as long as it was your idea or that of anything I
could support.

On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 1:08:42 AM UTC-5, Brad Guth wrote:
On Dec 3, 9:54*pm, wrote:

RocketLab has perfected using colloidal graphite particles combined in a hydrogen peroxide base



* *C + 2 H2O2 -- *CO2 + 2 H2O

* 12 + 2 x 34 *= * *44 + 2 x 18



So, for each 150 kg of carbon you have 850 kg of H2O2 for every tonne of propellant. *The graphite occupies 66.7 liters whilst the hydrogen-peroxide occupies 586.2 liters. *652.9 liters per metric ton of propellant. *A specific gravity of 1.53 kg/liter.



The carbon is The exhaust velocity of this system is 3.3 km/sec. *RocketLab has perfected a colloidal silver liquid that acts as a simple method of detonation for this mixture much more efficiently than silver mesh.



http://www.rocketlab.co.nz/propulsio...onopropellant/



At these densities, and temperatures, and pressures, 3% structural fractions are possible. *A 7 element system with each element 42 feet long and 7 feet in diameter and equipped with cross-feeding with 4 elements draining at lift off, 2 elements draining for second stage, and 1 element for third stage - puts up 10 tons.



It's good having you back in this Usenet cesspool of mostly denial and

obfuscation. What you propose here as using H2O2 and pure carbon

sounds like a perfectly good package deal, though I doubt most will

pay any attention as long as it was your idea or that of anything I

could support.

It doesn't matter what others think.

RocketLab has already mixed up this fuel and fired it and gotten good results.

The thick liquid doesn't slosh and is highly storable.

The eight foot diameter and forty-two foot long fiberglass tank coated with foam, looks a lot like a miniature space shuttle external tank. The fuel is pressurized with internal bladder and refrigerated. The bladder keeps things flowing in the right direction. Eight auger-like pumps produce the right mass flow and pressure for the simple annular nozzle array feeding an aerospike engine with eight throttable elements which controls flight direction.

The 5,700 lb system carries 163,000 lbs of propellant.

With a 9,185 ft/sec exhaust speed at lift off rising to 10,825 ft/sec at 60,000 ft and above, the single stage has a terminal velocity of 30,000 ft/sec - which is sufficient to put it into orbit without payload.

A 20,000 lb payload is capable of being put into orbit with this system with three similar launch elements. Two outboard elements feed all three engines operating at the base of each of the three flight elements. Each outboard element is dropped when empty, and the central element continues to orbit with its payload.

A dozen satellites launched into a sun-synchronous polar orbit from New Zealand provide global internet/GPS services with recovery of the launch elements in the Southern Sea off the coast of Antarctica.

A launcher consisting of seven elements just described, with four elements forming the first stage, two the second stage, one the third stage, puts up 50,000 lbs into the same orbit.

This same propellant powering stages of this mass are capable of putting 5,950 lbs of the 20,000 lb satellite or 14,890 lbs of the 50,000 lb satellite, into a trans-lunar trajectory.

If we imagine these 5,950 lb and 14,890 lb payloads were a stage equipped to land on the moon and take off and return to Earth, we have 1,025 lbs and 2,560 lbs respectively for each of these stages.

Now a long-duration mechanical counter-pressure suit

http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/63033

http://www.space.com/728-high-tech-s...ploration.html

is very lightweight, and dispenses with the need for cabins and things of that nature, especially with heads up displays and data gloves.

Also, tiny mechanisms (fuel cells, life support systems) made in quantity are highly reliable and very lightweight and capable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxSs1kGZQqc

The spacesuit is also equipped for re-entry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6xqgWVgAok

Basically, three people wearing this gear and massing on average 341 lbs each are strapped to the smaller lander and eleven people similarly equipped are strapped to the larger lander.

To build the flight system requires that $100 million to get to the first flight system and $200 million to get to the second flight system. So, this is $33.3 million and $18.2 million per person for the first flight.

I offer the first 33 flights to the moon for $330 million to a limited number of resellers ($66 million minimum investment).

I offer thirty flights to the moon for tourists using this system at $25 million each after funding is achieved. I will accept deposits which will be placed on deposit with a partner bank as Tier One Capital and earn interest during the wait period until the service is delivered - which will take up to three years for delivery.

After each flight tourists get to keep their suits and any of up to 20 lbs of materials that they can stow in their carrier bag. Professionally produced videos of their flights as well as all training prior to flight is included. Finally, for those who do something historic, special events will be arranged. (First woman on the moon, first X-national on the moon, etc.)

The base of the central element (either three part or seven part) has enough space for eleven outward facing seats which may be occupied prior to launch. So, this is enough to put folks into orbit. This orbital flight is included as part of training for the lunar flight by the way - and included in the price.

20,000 lbs payload provides 5 layers of 11 passengers each, plus 8 crew. So, resellers take note. In addition to the eleven lunar flights, there are 44 orbital flights - all with re-entry - which is the first 'manned' three unit flight. When these seats are sold for $2.5 million each, the cost of the lunar flight is covered - for the reseller.

Of course a reseller can take a trip form themselves and their loved ones, and resell extra seats to offset costs or eliminate them entirely.

Of course resellers take greater risk than tourists.

We will also need pilots and crew as well.


On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 3:11:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 1:08:42 AM UTC-5, Brad Guth wrote:

On Dec 3, 9:54*pm, wrote:



RocketLab has perfected using colloidal graphite particles combined in a hydrogen peroxide base







* *C + 2 H2O2 -- *CO2 + 2 H2O



* 12 + 2 x 34 *= * *44 + 2 x 18







So, for each 150 kg of carbon you have 850 kg of H2O2 for every tonne of propellant. *The graphite occupies 66.7 liters whilst the hydrogen-peroxide occupies 586.2 liters. *652.9 liters per metric ton of propellant. *A specific gravity of 1.53 kg/liter.







The carbon is The exhaust velocity of this system is 3.3 km/sec. *RocketLab has perfected a colloidal silver liquid that acts as a simple method of detonation for this mixture much more efficiently than silver mesh.







http://www.rocketlab.co.nz/propulsio...onopropellant/







At these densities, and temperatures, and pressures, 3% structural fractions are possible. *A 7 element system with each element 42 feet long and 7 feet in diameter and equipped with cross-feeding with 4 elements draining at lift off, 2 elements draining for second stage, and 1 element for third stage - puts up 10 tons.







It's good having you back in this Usenet cesspool of mostly denial and



obfuscation. What you propose here as using H2O2 and pure carbon



sounds like a perfectly good package deal, though I doubt most will



pay any attention as long as it was your idea or that of anything I



could support.



It doesn't matter what others think.



RocketLab has already mixed up this fuel and fired it and gotten good results.



The thick liquid doesn't slosh and is highly storable.



The eight foot diameter and forty-two foot long fiberglass tank coated with foam, looks a lot like a miniature space shuttle external tank. The fuel is pressurized with internal bladder and refrigerated. The bladder keeps things flowing in the right direction. Eight auger-like pumps produce the right mass flow and pressure for the simple annular nozzle array feeding an aerospike engine with eight throttable elements which controls flight direction.



The 5,700 lb system carries 163,000 lbs of propellant.



With a 9,185 ft/sec exhaust speed at lift off rising to 10,825 ft/sec at 60,000 ft and above, the single stage has a terminal velocity of 30,000 ft/sec - which is sufficient to put it into orbit without payload.



A 20,000 lb payload is capable of being put into orbit with this system with three similar launch elements. Two outboard elements feed all three engines operating at the base of each of the three flight elements. Each outboard element is dropped when empty, and the central element continues to orbit with its payload.



A dozen satellites launched into a sun-synchronous polar orbit from New Zealand provide global internet/GPS services with recovery of the launch elements in the Southern Sea off the coast of Antarctica.



A launcher consisting of seven elements just described, with four elements forming the first stage, two the second stage, one the third stage, puts up 50,000 lbs into the same orbit.



This same propellant powering stages of this mass are capable of putting 5,950 lbs of the 20,000 lb satellite or 14,890 lbs of the 50,000 lb satellite, into a trans-lunar trajectory.



If we imagine these 5,950 lb and 14,890 lb payloads were a stage equipped to land on the moon and take off and return to Earth, we have 1,025 lbs and 2,560 lbs respectively for each of these stages.



Now a long-duration mechanical counter-pressure suit



http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/63033



http://www.space.com/728-high-tech-s...ploration.html



is very lightweight, and dispenses with the need for cabins and things of that nature, especially with heads up displays and data gloves.



Also, tiny mechanisms (fuel cells, life support systems) made in quantity are highly reliable and very lightweight and capable.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxSs1kGZQqc



The spacesuit is also equipped for re-entry.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6xqgWVgAok



Basically, three people wearing this gear and massing on average 341 lbs each are strapped to the smaller lander and eleven people similarly equipped are strapped to the larger lander.



To build the flight system requires that $100 million to get to the first flight system and $200 million to get to the second flight system. So, this is $33.3 million and $18.2 million per person for the first flight.



I offer the first 33 flights to the moon for $330 million to a limited number of resellers ($66 million minimum investment).



I offer thirty flights to the moon for tourists using this system at $25 million each after funding is achieved. I will accept deposits which will be placed on deposit with a partner bank as Tier One Capital and earn interest during the wait period until the service is delivered - which will take up to three years for delivery.



After each flight tourists get to keep their suits and any of up to 20 lbs of materials that they can stow in their carrier bag. Professionally produced videos of their flights as well as all training prior to flight is included. Finally, for those who do something historic, special events will be arranged. (First woman on the moon, first X-national on the moon, etc.)

On Dec 3, 10:08*pm, Brad Guth wrote:
On Dec 3, 9:54*pm, wrote:

RocketLab has perfected using colloidal graphite particles combined in a hydrogen peroxide base

* *C + 2 H2O2 -- *CO2 + 2 H2O
* 12 + 2 x 34 *= * *44 + 2 x 18

So, for each 150 kg of carbon you have 850 kg of H2O2 for every tonne of propellant. *The graphite occupies 66.7 liters whilst the hydrogen-peroxide occupies 586.2 liters. *652.9 liters per metric ton of propellant. *A specific gravity of 1.53 kg/liter.

The carbon is The exhaust velocity of this system is 3.3 km/sec. *RocketLab has perfected a colloidal silver liquid that acts as a simple method of detonation for this mixture much more efficiently than silver mesh.

http://www.rocketlab.co.nz/propulsio...onopropellant/

At these densities, and temperatures, and pressures, 3% structural fractions are possible. *A 7 element system with each element 42 feet long and 7 feet in diameter and equipped with cross-feeding with 4 elements draining at lift off, 2 elements draining for second stage, and 1 element for third stage - puts up 10 tons.

It's good having you back in this Usenet cesspool of mostly denial and
obfuscation. *What you propose here as using H2O2 and pure carbon
sounds like a perfectly good package deal, though I doubt most will
pay any attention as long as it was your idea or that of anything I
could support.

Oddly the Google Groups Usenet/newsgroup reply index portion of
messages seems to be working, but the actual context of a given reply
isn't displayed (as though it has been intentionally moderated as
something nondisclosure rated so that we can't read it)

On Dec 4, 12:11*pm, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 4, 2012 1:08:42 AM UTC-5, Brad Guth wrote:
On Dec 3, 9:54*pm, wrote:

RocketLab has perfected using colloidal graphite particles combined in a hydrogen peroxide base

* *C + 2 H2O2 -- *CO2 + 2 H2O

* 12 + 2 x 34 *= * *44 + 2 x 18

So, for each 150 kg of carbon you have 850 kg of H2O2 for every tonne of propellant. *The graphite occupies 66.7 liters whilst the hydrogen-peroxide occupies 586.2 liters. *652.9 liters per metric ton of propellant. *A specific gravity of 1.53 kg/liter.

The carbon is The exhaust velocity of this system is 3.3 km/sec. *RocketLab has perfected a colloidal silver liquid that acts as a simple method of detonation for this mixture much more efficiently than silver mesh.

http://www.rocketlab.co.nz/propulsio...onopropellant/

At these densities, and temperatures, and pressures, 3% structural fractions are possible. *A 7 element system with each element 42 feet long and 7 feet in diameter and equipped with cross-feeding with 4 elements draining at lift off, 2 elements draining for second stage, and 1 element for third stage - puts up 10 tons.

It's good having you back in this Usenet cesspool of mostly denial and

obfuscation. *What you propose here as using H2O2 and pure carbon

sounds like a perfectly good package deal, though I doubt most will

pay any attention as long as it was your idea or that of anything I

could support.

It doesn't matter what others think.

RocketLab has already mixed up this fuel and fired it and gotten good results.

The thick liquid doesn't slosh and is highly storable.

The eight foot diameter and forty-two foot long fiberglass tank coated with foam, looks a lot like a miniature space shuttle external tank. *The fuel is pressurized with internal bladder and refrigerated. *The bladder keeps things flowing in the right direction. *Eight auger-like pumps produce the right mass flow and pressure for the simple annular nozzle array feeding an aerospike engine with eight throttable elements which controls flight direction.

The 5,700 lb system carries 163,000 lbs of propellant.

With a 9,185 ft/sec exhaust speed at lift off rising to 10,825 ft/sec at 60,000 ft and above, the single stage has a terminal velocity of 30,000 ft/sec - which is sufficient to put it into orbit without payload.

A 20,000 lb payload is capable of being put into orbit with this system with three similar launch elements. *Two outboard elements feed all three engines operating at the base of each of the three flight elements. *Each outboard element is dropped when empty, and the central element continues to orbit with its payload.

A dozen satellites launched into a sun-synchronous polar orbit from New Zealand provide global internet/GPS services with recovery of the launch elements in the Southern Sea off the coast of Antarctica.

A launcher consisting of seven elements just described, with four elements forming the first stage, two the second stage, one the third stage, puts up 50,000 lbs into the same orbit.

This same propellant powering stages of this mass are capable of putting 5,950 lbs of the 20,000 lb satellite or 14,890 lbs of the 50,000 lb satellite, into a trans-lunar trajectory.

If we imagine these 5,950 lb and 14,890 lb payloads were a stage equipped to land on the moon and take off and return to Earth, we have 1,025 lbs and 2,560 lbs respectively for each of these stages.

Now a long-duration mechanical counter-pressure suit

http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/63033

http://www.space.com/728-high-tech-s...eme-exploratio...

is very lightweight, and dispenses with the need for cabins and things of that nature, especially with heads up displays and data gloves.

Also, tiny mechanisms (fuel cells, life support systems) made in quantity are highly reliable and very lightweight and capable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxSs1kGZQqc

The spacesuit is also equipped for re-entry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6xqgWVgAok

Basically, three people wearing this gear and massing on average 341 lbs each are strapped to the smaller lander and eleven people similarly equipped are strapped to the larger lander.

To build the flight system requires that $100 million to get to the first flight system and $200 million to get to the second flight system. *So, this is $33.3 million and $18.2 million per person for the first flight.

I offer the first 33 flights to the moon for $330 million to a limited number of resellers ($66 million minimum investment).

I offer thirty flights to the moon for tourists using this system at $25 million each after funding is achieved. *I will accept deposits which will be placed on deposit with a partner bank as Tier One Capital and earn interest during the wait period until the service is delivered - which will take up to three years for delivery.

After each flight tourists get to keep their suits and any of up to 20 lbs of materials that they can stow in their carrier bag. *Professionally produced videos of their flights as well as all training prior to flight is included. *Finally, for those who do something historic, special events will be arranged. *(First woman on the moon, first X-national on the moon, etc.)

Sounds great, and I'm glad others found a good use for the nearly pure
form of H2O2 that even Mokenergy should be able to provide at less
cost than most any other alternative.