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ISS Safe Haven?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 25th 03, 05:09 PM
Explorer8939
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Default ISS Safe Haven?

The NASA Return to Flight report mentions that ISS should have some
sort of safe haven that would allow a Shuttle crew to survive at ISS
for 84 days. However, if this is a requirement, how will the station
office meet this requirement?
  #2  
Old December 26th 03, 11:18 AM
JOhn Doe
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Default ISS Safe Haven?

Explorer8939 wrote:
The NASA Return to Flight report mentions that ISS should have some
sort of safe haven that would allow a Shuttle crew to survive at ISS
for 84 days. However, if this is a requirement, how will the station
office meet this requirement?


Start by keeping a greater amount of consumables at the station, which,
safe-haven or not, would probably have been done in case the Shuttle is again
grounded. Will they modify an MPLM to become permanently attached to station
to provide sufficient space for storing the additional inventory of
consumables ?

They'll probably have to take a serious look at ECLSS, and if the toilet could
handle "long term" use by so many people. I'd worry also about the exercise
equipment since that seems to have been problematic since the start, and if
you'd suddently going to run TVIS 20 hours a day instead of 6, the problems
with the threadmill will probably arise real fast.

It probably also depends on whether the shuttle remains "turned on" during
this period, or if it is partially shutdown in a dormant state.

Normally, it is the shuttle which supplements the station's ECLSS during
docked operations with a flexible duct piping in fresh air to Destiny from
Shuttle. They may want to find a way to do the reverse. Are the air duct
connectors part of CBM between Destiny and PMA2 usable in any way to supply
the shuttle with fresh air ?
  #3  
Old December 26th 03, 10:59 PM
Explorer8939
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Default ISS Safe Haven?

Yes, there are many, many technical issues to work out if ISS is to
provide a safe haven one day for a stricken Shuttle - as is described
in the Return to flight plan. My point, however, is whether or not the
ISS Program Office is actually working any of these issues.

We may instead have the Shuttle people planning on a safe haven, and
the ISS office not at all.



JOhn Doe wrote in message ...
Explorer8939 wrote:
The NASA Return to Flight report mentions that ISS should have some
sort of safe haven that would allow a Shuttle crew to survive at ISS
for 84 days. However, if this is a requirement, how will the station
office meet this requirement?


Start by keeping a greater amount of consumables at the station, which,
safe-haven or not, would probably have been done in case the Shuttle is again
grounded. Will they modify an MPLM to become permanently attached to station
to provide sufficient space for storing the additional inventory of
consumables ?

They'll probably have to take a serious look at ECLSS, and if the toilet could
handle "long term" use by so many people. I'd worry also about the exercise
equipment since that seems to have been problematic since the start, and if
you'd suddently going to run TVIS 20 hours a day instead of 6, the problems
with the threadmill will probably arise real fast.

It probably also depends on whether the shuttle remains "turned on" during
this period, or if it is partially shutdown in a dormant state.

Normally, it is the shuttle which supplements the station's ECLSS during
docked operations with a flexible duct piping in fresh air to Destiny from
Shuttle. They may want to find a way to do the reverse. Are the air duct
connectors part of CBM between Destiny and PMA2 usable in any way to supply
the shuttle with fresh air ?

  #4  
Old December 27th 03, 05:14 AM
John Doe
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Posts: n/a
Default ISS Safe Haven?

Explorer8939 wrote:
in the Return to flight plan. My point, however, is whether or not the
ISS Program Office is actually working any of these issues.


Whether the shuttle stays powered on or not during the 80+ days doesn't change
the requirement that there be enough consumables to support 7 people for that
amount of time. For ISS flights, there is not much point in hauling such
supplies with every launch, reducing payload. So it makes sense to store those
consumables on the ISS and have them part of normal consumables for ISS crews.
(And would act as a bigger buffer should the shuttle get grounded again).

For the shuttle, the question becomes how much of it stays powered on.

Is it OK to operate the shuttle toilet for 7 people for 80 days dumping waste
in the very near vicinity of station ?

Would they use the shuttle's CO2 removal capability for that duration, or rely
on the station's systems ? If they use the shuttle's, would they store
non-renewable filters on station, or would they design shuttle filters that
are compatible with ther equipment in Quest used to renew the EVA filters ?

Another issue to consider is whether, during normal times, the 3 ISS crew
members would cycle through the consumables before their expiry period, or
whether storing enough for 7 people/80 days would result in spoilt
consumables having to be disposed of and replaced.
  #5  
Old December 27th 03, 06:02 AM
Hallerb
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Default ISS Safe Haven?


Whether the shuttle stays powered on or not during the 80+ days doesn't
change
the requirement that there be enough consumables to support 7


Beyond which one requirement should be the shuttle isnt available at all.

This might cover a emergency when its been evacuated and detached and sent on a
one way trip to the ocean, like MIR.
  #6  
Old December 27th 03, 04:25 PM
Explorer8939
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Posts: n/a
Default ISS Safe Haven?

There are many, many technical details to be worked out before ISS
could host a stricken shuttle's crew for 80+ days. However, my
question isn't about the techno-weenie problems, but rather, why the
heck the Space Shuttle program has levied a requirement on the ISS
program office, and is the ISSPO actually working on this new
requirement?

There IS an official ISSPO response to the CAIB, and in that report,
there is no mention of the ISS safe haven concept.



John Doe wrote in message ...
Explorer8939 wrote:
in the Return to flight plan. My point, however, is whether or not the
ISS Program Office is actually working any of these issues.


Whether the shuttle stays powered on or not during the 80+ days doesn't change
the requirement that there be enough consumables to support 7 people for that
amount of time. For ISS flights, there is not much point in hauling such
supplies with every launch, reducing payload. So it makes sense to store those
consumables on the ISS and have them part of normal consumables for ISS crews.
(And would act as a bigger buffer should the shuttle get grounded again).

For the shuttle, the question becomes how much of it stays powered on.

Is it OK to operate the shuttle toilet for 7 people for 80 days dumping waste
in the very near vicinity of station ?

Would they use the shuttle's CO2 removal capability for that duration, or rely
on the station's systems ? If they use the shuttle's, would they store
non-renewable filters on station, or would they design shuttle filters that
are compatible with ther equipment in Quest used to renew the EVA filters ?

Another issue to consider is whether, during normal times, the 3 ISS crew
members would cycle through the consumables before their expiry period, or
whether storing enough for 7 people/80 days would result in spoilt
consumables having to be disposed of and replaced.

 




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