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Malthusian Theory and Travel Beyond Earth Orbit



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 6th 03, 05:12 AM
G. L. Bradford Jr.
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Default Malthusian Theory and Travel Beyond Earth Orbit


"Joann Evans" wrote in message
...
John Maxson wrote:

[snip]

That wasn't my point. Spy-sats can also be subject to treaties.


Yes, but why? Its the only way to verify some *other* treaties, and
for reasons I'll give below, it would itself be an unverifiable treaty.

It's missile, anti-missile, nuclear, and WMD systems proliferation
that to me seem to be a dead-end, leading to our extinction.
Spy-sat overkill falls in the the category of mistrust, as I see it.


Yes, but trust isn't required, if you can use them to verify for
yourself.

In any case, it almost doesn't matter. If we get the kind of human
presence in Earth orbit that pretty much everyone on this NG hope for,
with multiple space staitions for multiple purposes (tourism,
manufacturing, etc.)and orbital spacecraft being flown to and from them
(and to unmanned sats for whatever reason) hundreds of times a day
(including people transferring to deeper space flights, a'la 2001),
it'll be impossible to keep anyone from pointing whatever optics they
want (even a good hand-held camera, in some cases) toward the ground,
because it'll then be almost trivial to do so. And everyone pretty much
accepted long ago that in order to have any sort of orbital space
flight, that the satellites/vehicles must pass repeatedly over anyone's
national territory, unlike aircraft where airspace is typically
respected.

The worst that will then happen is greater effort toward
camoflaging/hiding that which you don't want seen from orbit. And this
is already an old technology.

It's like what I said earlier about how the process of human expanson
into space for economic and exploratory reasons will help insure
survival of some part of the human species. Helping insure
non-extinction may not be the goal, but it will naturally fall out of
what you *are* doing. Eventually, you just will not be able to limit
orbital reconnisance systems. Indeed, the view is a major part of the
selling point for orbital tourism....


Your view concerning spysats is no more than E. E. 'Doc' Smith predicted
long ago, except that he predicted technology with the ability to look right
through walls, to mean looking through all intervening matter to a certain
depth to spy on anyone. He also predicted the technology to counter such
technology. Of course the greatest countermeasure he predicted is for a vast
majority to gain such vast breadth and depth of expanse into an immeasurable
outer frontier universe as to get beyond anyone or anything's ability to
watch all or even to watch a small part of all, much less get control over
life activity through any ability to watch.

Brad


  #12  
Old August 6th 03, 11:07 AM
John Ordover
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Default Malthusian Theory and Travel Beyond Earth Orbit

In any case, it almost doesn't matter. If we get the kind of human
presence in Earth orbit that pretty much everyone on this NG hope for,
with multiple space staitions for multiple purposes (tourism,
manufacturing, etc.)and orbital spacecraft being flown to and from them
(and to unmanned sats for whatever reason) hundreds of times a day
(including people transferring to deeper space flights, a'la 2001


Out of curiosity, where are all these people going, what will they do
when they get there, and how is a profit being made on the flights?
  #13  
Old August 10th 03, 01:30 PM
Al Jackson
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Default Malthusian Theory and Travel Beyond Earth Orbit

Joann Evans wrote in message ...
John Maxson wrote:



When I hear the: "If we can put a man on the Moon... (which we havent
done *lately*, BTW)" argument, I point out that that was entirely an
engineering problem. There's no engineering soultion for the problem
they're likely to complete the question with.


I think the slogan I liked was "For a country that put a man on the moon,
..... why can't we put a man on the moon?"
  #14  
Old August 14th 03, 09:32 AM
Kent Betts
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Default Malthusian Theory and Travel Beyond Earth Orbit

"Michael Gardner

Great - he used to simply be pursuing conspiracy thories - now he's
trying to save mankind.


His doc changed placebos.


  #15  
Old August 14th 03, 09:34 AM
Kent Betts
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Default Malthusian Theory and Travel Beyond Earth Orbit

"Paul Maxson

Michael why do you always badger him, honestly?


Because he is a damaged redolent turd.



 




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