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Eclipse for 21st century observers



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 15th 17, 08:34 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 1:09:42 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 7:55:18 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 7:01:25 AM UTC+1, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Although Uranus would appear to move against the background stars at a
rate of 4 degrees every year, from the rapidly moving Uranus with its
88 day orbital period, there would be no discernible retrograde motion
of Uranus seen from Mercury.

This is too stupid even for you, Gerald.

Oops, you got me on that one, I meant the rapidly moving Mercury would
not discern any appreciate backward motion of Uranus as it is simply
moving so fast with each orbital pass of the outer planet and Uranus is
moving so slow. Then again, reading the passage correctly, it would
easily have been seen to be a typo of sorts.

http://www.theplanetstoday.com/#

From what I see, Mercury may be barely discernible when the solar eclipse
occurs as seen from Earth as retrogrades of the inner planets rely on a
different perspective, much like the satellites of Jupiter.

Instead of attacking me it would be more productive if people simply
called out as many insights of their own if they got into the spirit of
this type of astronomy.





I see you're still using your favourite astrology site. Every time you look
at this you can be reminded of this truth of Newton's statement as you look
at the top diagram with its viewpoint "above" the sun and can see that from
the sun there are no retrogrades.


First things first,the website is brilliant and rather than disparage
that it is as an astrological website as I always knew it was, there is
nothing out there comparable to it for all the fuss about an information age.

Guess how they do the calculations. Newton wins again.

Retrogrades are merely how we see the motions of the planets from our
planet or indeed any other planet using the background stars as a gauge.
If I extended it out further to the 165 year orbit of Neptune that
represents a 2 degree movement against the background stars for each
Earth orbit then the results would be even clearer. Mercury with an
orbital period of 88 days would register no observed retrograde motion
due to the relative speeds of both planets yet the outer planet would
move 2 degrees against the background stars for roughly 4 orbits of Mercury.

Nice to see that you've finally realised that from the viewpoint of the sun
there are no retrogrades.

Just look at the diagram or the solar system on your astrology website to
confirm this.

You poor folk never get tired of dithering around when the imaging
language of astronomy is fairly straightforward and above the failures of
one individual in the late 17th century. In little over a month the inner
planets should be seen with the central Sun in the same image with its
glare conveniently subdued by our own moon.

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e...Tse1997uw2.png

I simply can't imagine a dour existence before all that is great in
modern technology which allows to images to circulate and despite the
experience that there isn't the slightest interest in interpretative
astronomy, it still stands that your poor creatures are willing to stick
with an identification exercise within a celestial sphere framework.

There isn't more than a little light entertainment to be gleaned from
somebody steadily misinterpreting everything the wonders is modern science
and Newtonian space flight show us. You have to realise that your constant
"discoveries" of spurious and impossible explanations of things which have
been known and explained for decades/centuries is just a type of freak
show.




  #22  
Old July 15th 17, 09:06 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 632
Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 8:38:16 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:

There isn't more than a little light entertainment to be gleaned from
somebody steadily misinterpreting everything the wonders is modern science
and Newtonian space flight show us. You have to realise that your constant
"discoveries" of spurious and impossible explanations of things which have
been known and explained for decades/centuries is just a type of freak
show.


The partitioning of retrograde resolutions is entirely new based on the relative terms of inner and outer planets. The geological astronomers to which the original Sun centred astronomers had to bend used a series of observations based on the motion of the Sun through the Zodiac which is why even the great Galileo and Kepler hadn't seen what miserable old fools here have not -

". . . the ancient hypotheses clearly fail to account for certain important matters. For example, they do not comprehend the causes of the numbers, extents and durations of the retrogradations and of their agreeing so well with the position and mean motion of the sun. Copernicus alone gives an explanation to those things that provoke astonishment among other astronomers, thus destroying the source of astonishment, which lies in the ignorance of the causes." 1596, Mysterium Cosmographicum Kepler

"Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is acutely demonstrated by Copernicus . . ." Galileo

That is why the upcoming eclipse and many more to come have a new significance as they show the inner planets as they move with the Sun front and center -

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e...Tse1997uw2.png

To refer the inner planets to the central Sun means shifting the motions of the background stars from left to right of the Sun due to the orbital motion of the Earth and that is the key difference that should be celebrated for what it is.






  #23  
Old July 15th 17, 09:11 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 632
Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 8:38:16 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:



I simply can't imagine a dour existence before all that is great in
modern technology which allows to images to circulate and despite the
experience that there isn't the slightest interest in interpretative
astronomy, it still stands that your poor creatures are willing to stick
with an identification exercise within a celestial sphere framework.

There isn't more than a little light entertainment to be gleaned from
somebody steadily misinterpreting everything the wonders is modern science
and Newtonian space flight show us. You have to realise that your constant
"discoveries" of spurious and impossible explanations of things which have
been known and explained for decades/centuries is just a type of freak
show.




The partitioning of retrograde resolutions is entirely new based on the relative terms of inner and outer planets. The geocentric astronomers to which the original Sun centred astronomers had to bend their approaches used a series of observations based on the motion of the Sun through the Zodiac which is why even the great Galileo and Kepler couldn't see what you can now -

". . . the ancient hypotheses clearly fail to account for certain important matters. For example, they do not comprehend the causes of the numbers, extents and durations of the retrogradations and of their agreeing so well with the position and mean motion of the sun. Copernicus alone gives an explanation to those things that provoke astonishment among other astronomers, thus destroying the source of astonishment, which lies in the ignorance of the causes." 1596, Mysterium Cosmographicum Kepler

"Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends more time in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose circles are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and retrograde motions appear in them also, due not to any motion that really exists in them, but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is acutely demonstrated by Copernicus . . ." Galileo

That is why the upcoming eclipse and many more to come have a new significance as they show the inner planets as they move with the Sun front and center -

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e...Tse1997uw2.png

To refer the inner planets to the central Sun means shifting the apparent motions of the background stars from left to right of the central Sun as a means to account for the orbital motion of the Earth and that is the key difference that should be celebrated for what it is. I take pride in what modern imaging can do and how to transmit it almost immediately, what you have pride in I neither know nor care.
  #24  
Old July 16th 17, 12:35 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 632
Default Eclipse for 21st century observers

On Saturday, July 15, 2017 at 8:38:16 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:


Nice to see that you've finally realised that from the viewpoint of the sun
there are no retrogrades.

Just look at the diagram or the solar system on your astrology website to
confirm this.



The topic is the eclipse for 21st century observers rather than the usual throwing good information after bad even though the empirical modelling agenda which improperly uses retrograde resolution based on a hypothetical observer on the Sun. The Sun centered system is inferred by and from a moving Earth and that brings us back to the eclipse and the inner planets in relation to the central Sun.

http://www.zam.fme.vutbr.cz/~druck/e...Tse1997uw2.png

The nearest analogy is the observed motions of Jupiter's satellites around the parent planet -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcrBAuLBXag

It would take an incredibly dull and dour individual to oppose the relevance of the eclipse in context of the motions and positions of the inner planets but nobody wants to talk about this wonderful feature for the same reason you can't work with imaging and are left barking in my direction.

 




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