Apollo One, the FBI, and Scott Grissom

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:18:36 -0400, "Scott Hedrick"
wrote:


"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message
. com...
OM, has anyone ever given you the
definition of "ASS u me?"

OM, don't do it, she's asking for anal sex. Maybe she has been in contact
with "scott" after all.

....Which just proves s/he's an escapee from Killfile Hell, as they're
all practiced experts at that sort of game.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:17:03 -0400, "Scott Hedrick"
wrote:


"OM" om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote
in message ...
I
had something more important to do - photo shoots in SA.

If you had to go to San Antonio, you must have been truly desperate.

....Desperate? Me? No, *they* asked -me- to come down there and do the
shoots.

Think about
it - if you had the choice of photographing attractive women or
stomping one of scott grissom's little sycophants and/or buttlovers
and/or mistresses into the ground, which would you *first*?

If you had to go to San Antonio to do this, you better have gotten laid by
all of them, and had them pay you for the privilege.

....Hey, I'm a professional here. I have a reputation to uphold. After
all, I'm a prevert - I simply haven't verted yet.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

"LaDonna Wyss" wrote:
"Charleston" wrote:

The uneven CO saturation levels througout the body are consistent with
rapid
onset of death. Had the CO levels been more evenly distributed by the
heart
through the bloodstream, then that would reflect lower levels of CO
exposure
over a longer period of time. Oxygen deprivation to the heart muscle
led
directly to heart failure which then caused rapid deprivation of oygen
to
the brain followed by rapid onset of death. I am sorry it happened that
way
but the autopsy results make sense to me and others with significantly
more
medical backgroud than I have.

3. My own, independent investigation has not only confirmed Scott's
allegations but has also revealed much more supporting evidence.
Anyone who is interested may feel free to post to this thread, email
me, or both.

Have you read the report at my website or looked at the associated
photographs? I have read most of the Congressional Report on the Apollo
1/204 report. The piece of metal that was of such intense interest here
a
while ago is most assuredly a part of a support bracket for MDC 8.

See page 2266 of the report. D-18-362

Oh, boy. Where to start with this one. First, perhaps you should
spend some time at the National Archives. Dr. Alan C. Harter
submitted his report to the Apollo 204 Review Board stating
unequivocally that cabin pressure caused NO physiological changes; the
pressure increased and then returned to normal too quickly. No
changes to the heart, lungs, etc.

I have spent plenty of time at the National Archives both in downtown DC and
in Maryland. Thanks. In another post I mention I will go back again
regarding TPS 68.

As for Dr Harter's assertions, what scientific tests were done to confirm
his personal thought on the matter? In 1967, there were very few similar
examples in the scientific literature/database that even remotely duplicate
in detail what happened physiologically to the crew due to that pressure
increase and rapid decrease. There was a single incident at Brooks AFB, TX,
IIRC, involving a flash oxygen fire in an experiment that resulted in two
deaths. Not much of a database. It might be useful to review the
literature since then and ask Dr. Harter to revisit the issue if he is even
alive today.

I have been through the Congressional Record four times. Have you
compared the photograph of that "part of a support bracket" with the
photograph of the metal plate in question?

Please, please visit my website before asking such questions. Since you
have read the Congressional report then you have seen that black and white
photo from 1967, on page 2041. Surely you jest that the metal piece is not
from that support bracket. Even Scott, when confronted with the report,
acknowledged that it could be from that bracket. He basically said "so
what" that does not tell us when it was cut from the bracket.

They don't even resemble
each other, unless someone miraculously was able to reshape it and
remove one hole from it between the time of the fire and 1996 when
Scott discovered it.

The hole in the little piece of metal is associated with the removal process
from Spacecraft 12. The hole is where one of the rivets holding the
bracket in place was located!

As for it being cut from the bracket so that it
could be examined under a microscope, not true.

Sure it is true.

Why don't you ask the
technician who disassembled Panel 8 what he saw when he removed it?

Why dont' you? What did he say? I have a great memory of that event? I
know how about we read the original analysis of the "minute arc pits" and
"melted conformal coating" as analyzed at 10X magnification on that bracket.

As for the rest of your post, you are regurgitating NASA's account of
the fire and the consequent results to the crew. You have NOT seen
Gus' complete autopsy report, so to quote the truncated versions you
find on the Internet is really not worth arguing.

I did not quote the internet. That is an assumption on your part. I quoted
the Medical Analysis report (Appendix D-11) in the Congressional Report. As
for being truncated, the quote is directly from an Armed Forces Institute of
Pathology document complete with its original lab accession number and for
the cause of death I quoted Standard Form 503 "Medical Record - Autopsy
Protocol".

I CAN tell you
this: The level of soot inside Gus' breathing passages was NOT the
amount you would expect to see if what you have posted is true.

You have offered no explanation for the CO levels whatsoever. The term
"expected" is irrelevant. All that matters is what was found, not what some
after the fact analyzer of facts might "expect".

And,
are you aware Roger Chaffee switched the entry batteries over to the
main batteries at 12.4 and 13.6 seconds, ensuring the suit compressor
would continue working? And it did, because according to Dr. Kelly's
report the air intake hoses were virtually clean. It was the air
outtake hoses that were filthy, indicating the air scrubber was doing
its job in drawing those toxins AWAY from the breathing air. Yes,
eventually they succumbed, but had someone decided to get up there
rapidly and administer oxygen, all three would have recovered.

Sucumbed from clean purified air? Please. You act as if the brave men who
did not have a self contained breathing apparatus, who bravely removed that
crew hatch after a monumental effort, and crawled right into that toxic
atmosphere with nothing more than a primitive gas mask to attempt a rescue
in the dark should have done so much better. Rescue was not possible at
that point. Even if the crew had somehow still been on the edge of life, do
you think Grissom and White could have survived their burns? Chaffee maybe.

OH, and as to thermal burns, since you've been through "most" of the
Congressional Record, surely you read the part where Dr. Berry
admitted the thermal burns were NOT lethal.

Some of the burns likely occurred prior to death and some after death.
The crew was in pain from those burns and I accept that they *contributed*
to the deaths of the crew as officially reported. You can argue this point
all you want.

--

Daniel
http://www.challengerdisaster.info
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message . ..
On 3 Jun 2004 21:50:19 -0700, (LaDonna Wyss)
wrote:

P.S. to someone who obviously prefers hyperbole to valid debate

...We all do. It's just that you're incapable of providing it, being
nothing but a scott grissom apologist, and quite probably a sodomy
partner as well.

The question here is whether you pitch or catch.

OM

The scary thing is not the fact that OM and Scott Hedrick think the
way they do, but rather that the government allows them to vote and
drive cars.

Harald Kucharek wrote in message ...
LaDonna Wyss wrote:
Finally, I AGREE with you Scott is less-than-forthcoming. At the risk
of sounding like an "apologist" (which I've already been accused of
here), have you ever met Scott or Betty? If not, it's really
difficult to explain how they view things. They are extremely
cynical, understandably so. That family has really been through it
over the years.
What has the family been through? Father/husband was a national hero,
died in an accident on duty for his country and got a funeral as a
national hero and father/husband is still today considered a national
hero. Would be good if the Grissom family would get through with
realizing that accidents happen and paranoids will always find fodder
for their paranoia. They could have come over Gus' death some thirty
years ago and live a good life, but decided to stay with the dark side
of the force. That's their problem and it would be nice if they would
leave it with them, but it seems they feel better by digging Gus' name
through the mud over and over again.

What has the family been through???!!!! Do you know anything about
what you are talking about??? The Grissoms have been given nothing
but grief by NASA from day one. You might take a little time to study
the history of this war.

OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 19:49:36 -0400, "Scott Hedrick"
wrote:

What you've shown is that you are looking for any desperate
scrap that will support "scott", which is a pretty strong indicator that
you're one of "scott"'s brown-nosers using a new address. You're using the
same style of attack as "scott", although thus far your spelling and
punctuation is better than he seems capable of showing.

...And, having over two decades of spotting trolls in message forums,
going all the way back to BITNET, this is *exactly* what tipped me off
as to what we're dealing with here. If it's not 'mc' or one of the
Maxson trash, then it could, quite possibly, be scott trying to throw
us off by dressing in drag and finally learning to use punctuation.

OM

Are you truly this thick? I've told you repeatedly who I am. If you
haven't figured it out by now, perhaps you should stick to message
boards for the IQ-challenged.

In article 1q2wc.16723$lL1.12934@fed1read03,
says...
"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" wrote:

snip

I can't recall. Was White the one closest to the hatch? If so, could his
increased exertion explain the higher levels of CO throughout his body?

Yes he was closest to the hatch sitting in the center couch. He was also
perhaps the most physically fit person in the capsule. As for the
concentrations in the body being higher/different, there are so many
variables I would not draw any conclusions about the cause or causes for the
differences.

I think it's fair, though, to make *some* assumptions based on the known
facts. White was the Senior Pilot (SPT), a position corresponding to
the CMP on crews as they were designated once Apollo actually started
flying. (Grissom was the CDR, and Chaffee's position was called Pilot,
or PLT.)

As was the custom throughout Apollo, the SPT/CMP was assigned the center
seat for launch. (Yes, I know Aldrin sat there during Apollo 11 -- it's
a long story.) As such, White had the primary responsibility for hatch
removal. The way the procedure was written, White was supposed to
operate the tools to undog the bolts holding the hatch in place, with
Grissom assisting. Chaffee was supposed to remain in his couch during
this process, to stay out of the way and to monitor CSM systems. This
was the procedure for both planned and emergency capsule egress.

According to the best reconstructions of what happened in CSM 012, once
the fire started, White grabbed the tool used to remove the hatch bolts
and started working on them. Of course, this was a doomed attempt,
since a) in the best of circumstances it took three to four minutes to
remove all the bolts, and b) the Block I hatch fit inside the pressure
vessel with a beveled edge, such that cabin pressure alone sealed it
firmly in place. Since cabin pressure prior to the pressure vessel
rupture climbed to 29 psia, even if all the bolts could have been
removed in seconds and not minutes, that hatch would have been
impossible to budge out of its frame until the pressures equalized. And
by that time, the oxygen hoses feeding the suit circuit had been
compromised and the crew had almost certainly been rendered unconscious
by the toxic fumes and CO levels. (A piece of Grissom's suit was blown
out of the cabin rupture, showing that the suits had been compromised by
the time of the rupture. Whether the suit or the hoses gave way first
is something we'll probably never know.)

Considering where the bodies were found (Grissom's under his left left
couch, White's at the head of his center couch, underneath the hatch
area, and Chaffee's still strapped into his right couch), it's likely
that White got out of his couch and was working frantically at removing
the bolts, with Grissom up and trying to help, before it became obvious
that they weren't going to get the hatch open in time. At that point,
Grissom and White did what you're trained to do in a fire -- get as low
as you can and hope that the majority of the heat and smoke will ride
above you. I imagine they had just barely made that decision and
started to act on it when the suit circuit failed and they began to lose
consciousness.

So, in the most-likely scenario (based on the procedures and where they
found the bodies), White would have been working very hard, trying to
remove the hatch bolts, and therefore would have been pumping the most
blood to his extremities at the time of the suit circuit failure. That
would tend to be supported by the CO diffusion percentages posted here.

Doug

In article ,
(LaDonna Wyss) wrote:

What you have seen is
the one or two pages that have been released; those are SUMMARIES.
The actual report is some 25 pages long, and it is CLASSIFIED. The
only reason I've seen it is because Scott and Betty graciously allowed
me to see it.

This merely goes to show you don't understand either governmental
classification schemes or how the Freedom of Information Act works.

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
Columbia Loss FAQ:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

On 4 Jun 2004 11:46:32 -0700, (LaDonna Wyss)
wrote:

Are you truly this thick?

....Are you truly this clueless a troll to think we're even going to
consider listening to your sycophantic rhetoricals in defense of
someone whose caused this group way too many headaches over the past
three+ years?

I've told you repeatedly who I am.

....And that means AbZero because you've not backed it up with any form
of verifiable facts, accredations, references or any sort of proof
that you've got any experience in the area of research, much less with
regards to anything that happened on A1.

What do you do for a living?
Where were you educated?
What exactly were your research sources? Names? Dates? Places?
Verifiable contacts that can be contacted now to back you up?
How can *you* be contacted directly? We're talking phone and address,
here, not just e-mail.

....For accusations of this severity, if you even fail to provide
tangible and verifable answers to even ONE the questions above, your
entire arguement is null and void. No exceptions. No appeal. Either
answer then so we can proceed further, or **** yourself somewhere
else.

If you haven't figured it out by now, perhaps you should stick to message
boards for the IQ-challenged.

....Perhaps you should just skip answering the questions and go ****
yourself, then, you worthless demented troll.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

On 4 Jun 2004 11:43:51 -0700, (Some ignorant
excuse for a troll calling herself LaDonna Wyss) wrote:

Do you know anything about what you are talking about???

....Yes, we do. You, however, do not. Begone.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr