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Quantum Paradox of a Self-Interference of a Photon in VLBI
I hardly perceive physical sense of the article written
in the "Nature" by Burke B.F.: Burke B.F., Quantum Interference Paradox, Nature, 223, 389-390, 1969. ------------------------------------------------------------- There is no direct physical process of addition "of waves / photons" passing through "slots or telescopes" in VLBI! ------------------------------------------------------------- The interference fringes (picture) in VLBI (interferometer) is pure mathematical abstraction, since the construction of an interference pattern is carried out in the computer. Dear colleagues physicists! Whether you can describe / solve in more detail problems of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI: 1. "Detections" of signals? ; 2. "Recording" of signals? ; 3. "Additions" of signals? ; .... and so on? Dear colleagues, be sure and not hide in obscurity "quantum Paradox of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI" --- Best Regards, Aleksandr Timofeev |
#2
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Dear Aleksandr Timofeev:
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... I hardly perceive physical sense of the article written in the "Nature" by Burke B.F.: Burke B.F., Quantum Interference Paradox, Nature, 223, 389-390, 1969. ------------------------------------------------------------- There is no direct physical process of addition "of waves / photons" passing through "slots or telescopes" in VLBI! ------------------------------------------------------------- The interference fringes (picture) in VLBI (interferometer) is pure mathematical abstraction, since the construction of an interference pattern is carried out in the computer. Dear colleagues physicists! Whether you can describe / solve in more detail problems of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI: 1. "Detections" of signals? ; 2. "Recording" of signals? ; 3. "Additions" of signals? ; ... and so on? Dear colleagues, be sure and not hide in obscurity Rotate one of the polarizers and let us know if the signal is blocked. You are playing the same song, let's see if you added a new stanza. David A. Smith |
#4
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"N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N: dlzc1 D:cox wrote in message news:x0C2d.184803$4o.2674@fed1read01...
Dear Aleksandr Timofeev: "Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... I hardly perceive physical sense of the article written in the "Nature" by Burke B.F.: Burke B.F., Quantum Interference Paradox, Nature, 223, 389-390, 1969. ------------------------------------------------------------- There is no direct physical process of addition "of waves / photons" passing through "slots or telescopes" in VLBI! ------------------------------------------------------------- The interference fringes (picture) in VLBI (interferometer) is pure mathematical abstraction, since the construction of an interference pattern is carried out in the computer. Dear colleagues physicists! Whether you can describe / solve in more detail problems of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI: 1. "Detections" of signals? ; 2. "Recording" of signals? ; 3. "Additions" of signals? ; ... and so on? Dear colleagues, be sure and not hide in obscurity Rotate one of the polarizers and let us know if the signal is blocked. You are playing the same song, let's see if you added a new stanza. David A. Smith Dear David A. Smith! There are two theories of an interference phenomenon of electromagnetic waves: 1. A wave point of view and 2. A photon point of view. 1. A wave point of view. The problems does not exist for classic wave interpretation of an interference phenomenon in VLBI an interferometer. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...n.jpl.nasa.gov 2. A photon point of view. From a photon point of view, the photon can be gripped by one and only by one radio telescope from two radio telescopes of VLBI. ********************************************** Now Dear David A. Smith you should describe YOURS the physical mechanism of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI. ********************************************** From my point of view, you can not describe the physical mechanism of a phenomenon of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI, since any your "interpretation" will be foregone to contain logic and physical ERRORS of explanation of the physical mechanism of a phenomenon of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI. --- Best Regards Aleksandr Timofeev ================================================== === P.S. ADDITIONAL INFO: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...1.dejanews.com From: Aleksandr Timofeev ) Subject: Length of wavetrain of a single photon View: Complete Thread (190 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: sci.physics.research Date: 1999/01/18 In article , (Ray Tomes) wrote: I am wondering whether any attempt has ever been made to measure the wave train length and amplitude profile of a single photon? To explain what I mean by this, consider Young's two slit experiment and the resulting interference for the case where the photon rate is very low and we may consider that essentially all observed events are self interference of single photons. On my sight, for consideration of an offered problem from all points of view; the most approaching measuring instrument is the microwave interferometr with superlong basis - VLBI. I would name this type of an interferometer as an interferometer with independent registration of signals in shoulders. Fundamentally any other interferometer by nothing differs from an interferometer considered below. Principles of work VLBI The microwave interferometr with superlong basis consists of two radio telescopes were on a very large distance from each other. Before experiment or after him, the nuclear hours are synchronized. Each radio telescope writes on a videotape a transformed radiation accepted by an antenna. Simultaneously with a signal, the scores of time received from the standard of frequency, are written on a videotape. After ending experiment we have two videotapes with entries of a signal and scores of time. The "interference picture" is received after data processing of these videotapes on the computer. There are two graphic schemes illustrating the description: The microwave interferometer with superlong basis. Part 1. Block scheme. - radio-telescope 1 - - parabolic antenna tape 1 clock 1 - \ - \ [ microwave ] - \ [ receiver + ] [videotape] [hydrogen ] - ) )---[analog-to-digital]---[recorder ]---[frequency] - / [ converter ] ^ ^ [standard ] - / | | - / radio-signals time-marks - microwave - radiation - for synchronization of atomic clocks - [transportable caesium] - [ frequency standard ] [snip] ================================================== ================== - radio-telescope 2 - - - parabolic antenna 2 tape 2 clock 2 - \ - \ [ microwave ] - \ [ receiver + ] [videotape] [hydrogen ] - ) )---[analog-to-digital]---[recorder ]---[frequency] - / [ converter ] ^ ^ [standard ] - / | | - / radio-signals time-marks - - - .. The microwave interferometer with superlong basis. Part 2. .. ---------------------------------------------------------- .. "Interference picture" .. ^ .. | .. [videotape 1] ------ [ COMPUTER ] ---------- [videotape 2] .. ^ ^ .. | | .. radio-telescope 1 - synchronization clocks - radio-telescope 2 .. Length of basis .. |----------------------------- {snip} -------------------------------| .. /^\ /^\ ..^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ {snip} ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ..| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Noise microwave radiation Flexible possibilities of a computer interference of signals. 1. Our interferometer has the right and left shoulders. The distance between shoulders does not influence sensitivity of an interferometer. The sensitivity of an interferometer to a signal is determined by the worse receiver from both radio telescopes. - The distance between shoulders of an interferometer can be no matter how large. (This problem is reduced to a problem of transportation of clocks of a synchronization). 2. The addition of signals is carried out in the computer, that allows to apply no matter how complicated algorithms of addition of signals. - In that specific case, we can arbitrary vary delay of signals in each from a shoulders in any direction. Conditionality of physical concept " an Interference picture ". Here we shall be convinced of a celebration of a principle of a causality. The events happening on slots of an interferometer have primary significance, all other events happening in an interferometer have the status secondary. Let's analyze physical concept addition of signals in an interferometer. The radiation incident on an input of an interferometer has the following performances: Wavefront; Frequency band; Spectral fluence of energy; For each frequency: Polarization; Amplitude; Phase; Stability. The interferometer considered by us, is an interferometer with independent registration of signals in shoulders and the process of addition of signals is carried out in the computer. The phrase " process of addition of signals is carried out in the computer " allows clearly to seize essence " concepts of an interference picture " and source of an origin of this concept. In the given type of an interferometer there is some arbitrariness in choice by us of the law of addition of signals from the right and left shoulders. In our case " the kind of an interference picture " depends on the concrete law of addition of signals selected by us. In other kinds of interferometers geometry (physical) construction of an interferometer determines the law of addition of signals and " a kind of an interference picture ". |
#5
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Dear Aleksandr Timofeev:
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N: dlzc1 D:cox wrote in message news:x0C2d.184803$4o.2674@fed1read01... Dear Aleksandr Timofeev: "Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... I hardly perceive physical sense of the article written in the "Nature" by Burke B.F.: Burke B.F., Quantum Interference Paradox, Nature, 223, 389-390, 1969. ------------------------------------------------------------- There is no direct physical process of addition "of waves / photons" passing through "slots or telescopes" in VLBI! ------------------------------------------------------------- The interference fringes (picture) in VLBI (interferometer) is pure mathematical abstraction, since the construction of an interference pattern is carried out in the computer. Dear colleagues physicists! Whether you can describe / solve in more detail problems of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI: 1. "Detections" of signals? ; 2. "Recording" of signals? ; 3. "Additions" of signals? ; ... and so on? Dear colleagues, be sure and not hide in obscurity Rotate one of the polarizers and let us know if the signal is blocked. You are playing the same song, let's see if you added a new stanza. David A. Smith Dear David A. Smith! There are two theories of an interference phenomenon of electromagnetic waves: 1. A wave point of view and 2. A photon point of view. 1. A wave point of view. The problems does not exist for classic wave interpretation of an interference phenomenon in VLBI an interferometer. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...n.jpl.nasa.gov 2. A photon point of view. From a photon point of view, the photon can be gripped by one and only by one radio telescope from two radio telescopes of VLBI. ********************************************** Now Dear David A. Smith you should describe YOURS the physical mechanism of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI. Self-interference is well documented, Alexsandr. So you have not added a new stanza. Good luck to you. David A. Smith |
#6
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Dear David A. Smith!
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N: dlzc1 D:cox wrote in message news:9rW3d.212272$4o.63326@fed1read01... Dear Aleksandr Timofeev: "Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message [snip] Dear colleagues physicists! Whether you can describe / solve in more detail problems of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI: 1. "Detections" of signals? ; 2. "Recording" of signals? ; 3. "Additions" of signals? ; ... and so on? Dear colleagues, be sure and not hide in obscurity [snip] You are playing the same song, let's see if you added a new stanza. David A. Smith Dear David A. Smith! There are two theories of an interference phenomenon of electromagnetic waves: 1. A wave point of view and 2. A photon point of view. 1. A wave point of view. The problems does not exist for classic wave interpretation of an interference phenomenon in VLBI an interferometer. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...n.jpl.nasa.gov 2. A photon point of view. From a photon point of view, the photon can be gripped by one and only by one radio telescope from two radio telescopes of VLBI. ********************************************** Now Dear David A. Smith you should describe YOURS the physical mechanism of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI. Self-interference is well documented, Alexsandr. Then, please Dear David A. Smith quote any fragment of paper, which one yields exposition of a phenomenon of a self-interference of "photon" in VLBI an interferometer (Very Long Base Interferometr). http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...jpl.nasa.go v So you have not added a new stanza. Good luck to you. David A. Smith --- Good luck to you. Aleksandr Timofeev |
#7
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Dear Aleksandr Timofeev:
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... Dear David A. Smith! "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N: dlzc1 D:cox wrote in message news:9rW3d.212272$4o.63326@fed1read01... .... From a photon point of view, the photon can be gripped by one and only by one radio telescope from two radio telescopes of VLBI. ********************************************** Now Dear David A. Smith you should describe YOURS the physical mechanism of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI. Self-interference is well documented, Alexsandr. Then, please Dear David A. Smith quote any fragment of paper, which one yields exposition of a phenomenon of a self-interference of "photon" in VLBI an interferometer (Very Long Base Interferometr). No. I have done what was asked. The turn is yours. Rotate the polarizer, or explain why detectors with polarizers at roughly 90 deg for a given source still have signal. If these were waves-only, the signal would be lost or severely degraded. It is not, so the wave model is still relegated to the useful but WRONG bin. So the wave-only model of photons should be the "dance of the chimera", don't you think? Have a nice day! David A. Smith |
#8
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"N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N: dlzc1 D:cox wrote in message news:Rnf4d.221171$4o.106415@fed1read01...
Dear Aleksandr Timofeev: "Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... Dear David A. Smith! "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N: dlzc1 D:cox wrote in message news:9rW3d.212272$4o.63326@fed1read01... ... From a photon point of view, the photon can be gripped by one and only by one radio telescope from two radio telescopes of VLBI. ********************************************** Now Dear David A. Smith you should describe YOURS the physical mechanism of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI. Self-interference is well documented, Alexsandr. Then, please Dear David A. Smith quote any fragment of paper, which one yields exposition of a phenomenon of a self-interference of "photon" in VLBI an interferometer (Very Long Base Interferometr). No. I have done what was asked. The turn is yours. Rotate the polarizer, or explain why detectors with polarizers at roughly 90 deg for a given source still have signal. If these were waves-only, the signal would be lost or severely degraded. It is not, so the wave model is still relegated to the useful but WRONG bin. So the wave-only model of photons should be the "dance of the chimera", don't you think? "Rotate the polarizer, or explain why detectors with polarizers at roughly 90 deg for a given source still have signal." It is the insecure assertion. The signal disappears, but the noise remain. Really, in this case, as according to a classic wave theory it should be, the correlation between signals of two radio telescopes fades. " Without a word of warning, the correlation of signals (between signals of two radio telescopes VLBI) fades to nothing. " In this Case signals of two radio telescopes consist only of noise radiation, which one have not cross correlation. Thus, at addition of these signals in the digital computer on wave model " the virtual mathematical interference (VLBI)" has not a place! "Diffraction is a single photon interfering with itself" Whether indivisible "photon" can to be wrote simultaneously on two magnetic tapes, which ones are disposed simultaneously in opposite points of a globe? ;^) The self-interference of "photon" is impossible in VLBI physically on principle, the since each radio telescope is simultaneously both "slot" and "detector", and VIRTUAL of VLBI an interference is a corollary of mathematical addition of the information from video cassettes in the digital computer on wave model. Have a very nice day! Aleksandr Timofeev P.S. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...g .google.com ================================================== ========== Alexsandr's contention is that since the detectors are situated all over the Earth, and their detectors are "absolutely" synchronized (by later comparisons of data streams from each detector), that only a wave could produce simultaneous detection in each data stream. I have challenged Mr. Timofeev to ask permission of his boss (or whatever), to alter the orientation of the polarizer at one detector for long enough to assure a measured effect was recorded... say five minutes. The orientation would be to place the polarizer at 90° to another polarizer on a remote detector. Since crossed polarizers disallow anything except helically polarized light from passing, then the two detectors with this orientation should then both lose signal. |
#9
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Dear Aleksandr Timofeev:
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N: dlzc1 D:cox wrote in message news:Rnf4d.221171$4o.106415@fed1read01... Dear Aleksandr Timofeev: "Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... Dear David A. Smith! "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N: dlzc1 D:cox wrote in message news:9rW3d.212272$4o.63326@fed1read01... ... From a photon point of view, the photon can be gripped by one and only by one radio telescope from two radio telescopes of VLBI. ********************************************** Now Dear David A. Smith you should describe YOURS the physical mechanism of a self-interference of a photon in VLBI. Self-interference is well documented, Alexsandr. Then, please Dear David A. Smith quote any fragment of paper, which one yields exposition of a phenomenon of a self-interference of "photon" in VLBI an interferometer (Very Long Base Interferometr). No. I have done what was asked. The turn is yours. Rotate the polarizer, or explain why detectors with polarizers at roughly 90 deg for a given source still have signal. If these were waves-only, the signal would be lost or severely degraded. It is not, so the wave model is still relegated to the useful but WRONG bin. So the wave-only model of photons should be the "dance of the chimera", don't you think? "Rotate the polarizer, or explain why detectors with polarizers at roughly 90 deg for a given source still have signal." It is the insecure assertion. The signal disappears, but the noise remain. Really, in this case, as according to a classic wave theory it should be, the correlation between signals of two radio telescopes fades. " Without a word of warning, the correlation of signals (between signals of two radio telescopes VLBI) fades to nothing. " In this Case signals of two radio telescopes consist only of noise radiation, which one have not cross correlation. Thus, at addition of these signals in the digital computer on wave model " the virtual mathematical interference (VLBI)" has not a place! "Diffraction is a single photon interfering with itself" Whether indivisible "photon" can to be wrote simultaneously on two magnetic tapes, which ones are disposed simultaneously in opposite points of a globe? ;^) The self-interference of "photon" is impossible in VLBI physically on principle, the since each radio telescope is simultaneously both "slot" and "detector", and VIRTUAL of VLBI an interference is a corollary of mathematical addition of the information from video cassettes in the digital computer on wave model. Have a very nice day! So absorption is indistinguishable from the arrival of a "wavefront" of particles. How nice. David A. Smith |
#10
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:02:35 -0700, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" N:
dlzc1 D:cox wrote: The self-interference of "photon" is impossible in VLBI physically on principle, the since each radio telescope is simultaneously both "slot" and "detector", and VIRTUAL of VLBI an interference is a corollary of mathematical addition of the information from video cassettes in the digital computer on wave model. Have a very nice day! So absorption is indistinguishable from the arrival of a "wavefront" of particles. How nice. David A. Smith Which universe are these single photons found in? |
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