Ayn Rand's Utopia

wrote:
On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 8:50:22 AM UTC-4, Mike Collins wrote:
wsnell01 wrote:
On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 2:44:17 PM UTC-4, Mike Collins wrote:
wsnell01 wrote:

Now, that being said, guns are good equalizers. For the most part that is a positive.

Rubbish!

Equality is a good equaliser,

Nonsense!

There are a few sub-cultures here which disdain the ideas of education,
hard work and polite behavior.

What do you expect me to do about that?

If they have guns they are equal to you by your definition.

By "equality" I presume you mean socio-economic equality. Perhaps you
should be more clear and say what you mean.

What do you expect me to do about kids who won't do their homework and
then drop out of school?

Don't shoot them.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:30:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:42:41 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins

The problem of gun ownership is this; Only those who don't want guns should
be allowed to own them. But we don't don't do that.
So in the UK we just ban handgun ownership. That does the job.

This isn't the UK.

But murders still happen in the UK.

Vath, liberals have very poor reasoning powers. They love
apples-to-oranges comparisons. They live in a dream world.
The law of unintended consequences completely baffles
them. Ultimately, they are hypocrites.

Of course.

Never forget that when the Nazis got into power the first thing they
did was ban guns.


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On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:04:20 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote this crap:

wrote:
On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:42:41 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins

The problem of gun ownership is this; Only those who don't want guns should
be allowed to own them. But we don't don't do that.
So in the UK we just ban handgun ownership. That does the job.

This isn't the UK.

But murders still happen in the UK.

Vath, liberals have very poor reasoning powers. They love
apples-to-oranges comparisons. They live in a dream world. The law of
unintended consequences completely baffles them. Ultimately, they are hypocrites.

The USA has high rates of gun ownership.

The USA has very high murder rates.

See a correlation.

You might try using inductive logic to suggest that the high gun ownership
is one of the causes of the high murder rate.

Not proof but a good indication.

You might also consider that the US has a court system that allows
violent criminals to walk the streets. I consider drug dealers to be
violent criminals because the product they sell causes other people to
do violent acts.


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Lord Vath wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:30:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:42:41 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins

The problem of gun ownership is this; Only those who don't want guns should
be allowed to own them. But we don't don't do that.
So in the UK we just ban handgun ownership. That does the job.

This isn't the UK.

But murders still happen in the UK.

Vath, liberals have very poor reasoning powers. They love
apples-to-oranges comparisons. They live in a dream world.
The law of unintended consequences completely baffles
them. Ultimately, they are hypocrites.

Of course.

Never forget that when the Nazis got into power the first thing they
did was ban guns.


This signature is now the ultimate
power in the universe

Wrong

Gun regulation of the Third Reich Edit
In Nazi Germany the March 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the
current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law,
citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate
permit to acquire a firearm. But under the new law:[5]:673-674

Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or
ammunition. The 1938 revisions allowed the acquisition and transfer of
rifles and shotguns, and the possession of ammunition with a permit.
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit
requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government
workers, and NSDAP members were no longer subject to gun ownership
restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central
government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways
were exempted.
The legal age at which guns could be purchased was lowered from 20 to
18.[6]
Permits were valid for three years, rather than one year.[6]
Manufacture of arms and ammunition continued to require a permit, with the
revision that such permits would no longer be issued to Jews or any company
part-owned by Jews. Jews were consequently forbidden from the manufacturing
or dealing of firearms and ammunition. This included a 20 year sentence
served in a concentration camp by any Jew possessing a firearm. [7]
Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were
required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and
the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police
authority for inspection at the end of each year.

Some German police used the 1928 "trustworthiness" clause to disarm Jews on
the basis "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as
trustworthy'".[5]:676 On November 11, 1938, the Regulations Against Jews'
Possession of Weapons was promulgated by Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm
Frick. The regulation prohibited Jews from possessing firearms, ammunition,
and other weapons.[5]:675


Edit
In Nazi Germany the March 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the
current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law,
citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate
permit to acquire a firearm. But under the new law:[5]:673-674

Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or
ammunition. The 1938 revisions allowed the acquisition and transfer of
rifles and shotguns, and the possession of ammunition with a permit.
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit
requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government
workers, and NSDAP members were no longer subject to gun ownership
restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central
government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways
were exempted.
The legal age at which guns could be purchased was lowered from 20 to
18.[6]
Permits were valid for three years, rather than one year.[6]
Manufacture of arms and ammunition continued to require a permit, with the
revision that such permits would no longer be issued to Jews or any company
part-owned by Jews. Jews were consequently forbidden from the manufacturing
or dealing of firearms and ammunition. This included a 20 year sentence
served in a concentration camp by any Jew possessing a firearm. [7]
Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were
required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and
the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police
authority for inspection at the end of each year.

Some German police used the 1928 "trustworthiness" clause to disarm Jews on
the basis "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as
trustworthy'".[5]:676 On November 11, 1938, the Regulations Against Jews'
Possession of Weapons was promulgated by Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm
Frick. The regulation prohibited Jews from possessing firearms, ammunition,
and other weapons.[5]:675

Current laws Edit

Edit
In Nazi Germany the March 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the
current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law,
citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate
permit to acquire a firearm. But under the new law:[5]:673-674

Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or
ammunition. The 1938 revisions allowed the acquisition and transfer of
rifles and shotguns, and the possession of ammunition with a permit.
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit
requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government
workers, and NSDAP members were no longer subject to gun ownership
restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central
government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways
were exempted.
The legal age at which guns could be purchased was lowered from 20 to
18.[6]
Permits were valid for three years, rather than one year.[6]
Manufacture of arms and ammunition continued to require a permit, with the
revision that such permits would no longer be issued to Jews or any company
part-owned by Jews. Jews were consequently forbidden from the manufacturing
or dealing of firearms and ammunition. This included a 20 year sentence
served in a concentration camp by any Jew possessing a firearm. [7]
Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were
required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and
the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police
authority for inspection at the end of each year.

Some German police used the 1928 "trustworthiness" clause to disarm Jews on
the basis "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as
trustworthy'".[5]:676 On November 11, 1938, the Regulations Against Jews'
Possession of Weapons was promulgated by Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm
Frick. The regulation prohibited Jews from possessing firearms, ammunition,
and other weapons.[5]:675

Current laws Edit

Lord Vath wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:04:20 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote this crap:

wrote:
On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:42:41 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins

The problem of gun ownership is this; Only those who don't want guns should
be allowed to own them. But we don't don't do that.
So in the UK we just ban handgun ownership. That does the job.

This isn't the UK.

But murders still happen in the UK.

Vath, liberals have very poor reasoning powers. They love
apples-to-oranges comparisons. They live in a dream world. The law of
unintended consequences completely baffles them. Ultimately, they are hypocrites.

The USA has high rates of gun ownership.

The USA has very high murder rates.

See a correlation.

You might try using inductive logic to suggest that the high gun ownership
is one of the causes of the high murder rate.

Not proof but a good indication.

You might also consider that the US has a court system that allows
violent criminals to walk the streets. I consider drug dealers to be
violent criminals because the product they sell causes other people to
do violent acts.


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Then do something about the court system.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 09:54:13 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 14:28:52 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
So much so, that I would even do what was in my power to promote a fanatical
belief in the superiority of democracy as to make millions of people... willing
to slaughter other millions of people, if need be, that democracy will not be
destroyed.

If that's what it takes to maintain democracy, I say good riddance.

How many would you be prepared to slaughter: one million,five million, one
hundred million, a billion, five billion, 20 billion?

Not sure what you're asking. I'm not suggesting anybody be
slaughtered. I'm saying that if democracy can only be maintained by a
slaughter (as suggested by John's scenario) then I consider democracy
not worth preserving.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:53:00 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

You can speak, I can speak. (However, what I say makes more sense.)

You never advance any arguments, so how would we know? All you do is
whine about what everybody else says.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:55:20 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote this crap:

Lord Vath wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:04:20 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote this crap:

wrote:
On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:42:41 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins

The problem of gun ownership is this; Only those who don't want guns should
be allowed to own them. But we don't don't do that.
So in the UK we just ban handgun ownership. That does the job.

This isn't the UK.

But murders still happen in the UK.

Vath, liberals have very poor reasoning powers. They love
apples-to-oranges comparisons. They live in a dream world. The law of
unintended consequences completely baffles them. Ultimately, they are hypocrites.

The USA has high rates of gun ownership.

The USA has very high murder rates.

See a correlation.

You might try using inductive logic to suggest that the high gun ownership
is one of the causes of the high murder rate.

Not proof but a good indication.

You might also consider that the US has a court system that allows
violent criminals to walk the streets. I consider drug dealers to be
violent criminals because the product they sell causes other people to
do violent acts.



Then do something about the court system.

Unfortunately the whacko liberals are allowing drugs and drug dealers
to be legal, and the courts are becoming more liberal. This country
is headed in the wrong direction.

Welcome to the United States of Barakistan.


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Lord Vath wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:55:20 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote this crap:

Lord Vath wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:04:20 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote this crap:

wrote:
On Friday, July 24, 2015 at 3:45:13 PM UTC-4, Lord Vath wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 18:42:41 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins

The problem of gun ownership is this; Only those who don't want guns should
be allowed to own them. But we don't don't do that.
So in the UK we just ban handgun ownership. That does the job.

This isn't the UK.

But murders still happen in the UK.

Vath, liberals have very poor reasoning powers. They love
apples-to-oranges comparisons. They live in a dream world. The law of
unintended consequences completely baffles them. Ultimately, they are hypocrites.

The USA has high rates of gun ownership.

The USA has very high murder rates.

See a correlation.

You might try using inductive logic to suggest that the high gun ownership
is one of the causes of the high murder rate.

Not proof but a good indication.

You might also consider that the US has a court system that allows
violent criminals to walk the streets. I consider drug dealers to be
violent criminals because the product they sell causes other people to
do violent acts.



Then do something about the court system.

Unfortunately the whacko liberals are allowing drugs and drug dealers
to be legal, and the courts are becoming more liberal. This country
is headed in the wrong direction.

Welcome to the United States of Barakistan.


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What was the solution to the high crime rate during prohibition?
The UK didn't have have a drug crime problem until the 1960s when the US
government persuaded the British government to change the law and make
drugs illegal. Before that the small number of drug addicts went to their
GP (physician) and were registered as drug addicts. They got their
prescription from a pharmacy at the standard cost of any prescription. Once
the law was Americanised it became profitable for criminals to sell drugs
and crime rates soared.
The Swiss have the solution. Make drugs uncool. Drug addicts have to go to
clinics for their fix. Methadone is another problem. It's more addictive
than heroin and is only used because it satisfies puritans by not having a
high.
Before you try to claim I don't know what I'm talking about I used to do
work for an addiction unit in a large city. At the time (1990s) the addict
in that city tended to be addicts for about 4 years and then got tired of
it and gave up. In that 4 years about a quarter of them died.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 16:17:33 +0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote this crap:


You might also consider that the US has a court system that allows
violent criminals to walk the streets. I consider drug dealers to be
violent criminals because the product they sell causes other people to
do violent acts.



Then do something about the court system.

Unfortunately the whacko liberals are allowing drugs and drug dealers
to be legal, and the courts are becoming more liberal. This country
is headed in the wrong direction.

Welcome to the United States of Barakistan.



What was the solution to the high crime rate during prohibition?

Nothing. Because the cops were on the take. And the public liked
their booze.

Before you even equate prohibition to our current situation, you must
remember you can make booze anywhere. I make beer and wine in my
laundry room. I can't make heroin there.


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