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This news item

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03...in-early-2014/

notes that at least a tentative approximate date has been set for a
test flight of Orion; thus, a craft that NASA could use to send humans
to the Moon, an asteroid, or even Mars _is_ slowly becoming a reality.

John Savard

On Mar 3, 1:35*am, Quadibloc wrote:
This news item

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03...a-has-designed...

notes that at least a tentative approximate date has been set for a
test flight of Orion; thus, a craft that NASA could use to send humans
to the Moon, an asteroid, or even Mars _is_ slowly becoming a reality.

John Savard

Orion costs way too much, plus a capsule is great for transit to LEO,
but really not large enough to go far. Theres no money for orion
missions. This program is just a BIG pork piggie payoff to previous
shuttle contractors.

Our country can no longer afford pork.

Meanwhile space X delivers supplies to ISS for 10% of $$$ what a NASA
system would.

NASA needs to get out of the way and let private operators do things

On Mar 3, 2:36*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Mar 3, 1:35*am, Quadibloc wrote:
This news item

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03...a-has-designed....

notes that at least a tentative approximate date has been set for a
test flight of Orion; thus, a craft that NASA could use to send humans
to the Moon, an asteroid, or even Mars _is_ slowly becoming a reality.

John Savard

Orion costs way too much, plus a capsule is great for transit to LEO,
but really not large enough to go far. Theres no money for orion
missions. This program is just a BIG pork piggie payoff to previous
shuttle contractors.

Our country can no longer afford pork.

Meanwhile space X delivers supplies to ISS for 10% of $$$ what a NASA
system would.

NASA needs to get out of the way and let private operators do things

Just how is NASA 'in the way', Bobbert?

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
*territory."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --G. Behn

BY BUILDING ORION its a complete waste of money and time, and just a
warmed leftover of ARES.

truly congress is at fault for demanding pork. our country is headed
to collapse from far too much pork and too much military spending, its
doubled since 9 11 and we funded 2 wars yet with one war over and the
other winding down congress wants military spending to not be cut...

like my grandma used to say you can have so much insurance you cant
afford to live...

we need a big fast strike force based in the US and close most
military bases worldwide in peaceful areas. leaving hardened bases
with minimal skelton crews for security and maintence. no one is
attacking japan or germany

while keeping or perhaps increasing staffing in unstable areas like
korea.

with enough nuclear weapons as a deterrent but theres no need to have
enough to kill the planet 200 times over.

plus its important the US be a good neighbor and not the bully on the
block.

another thing is energy independence that really happens. Convert new
vehicle production to electric and CNG and let the arabs drown in
their oil......

They will mss the billion dollars a day we have been sending them

I've done some more checking. From this page,

http://www.tallgeorge.com/mpcv.php

it appears that the test launch is going to be of the new Orion
capsule - now called the MPCV, as Orion, as such, is officially
cancelled - is going to be launched on an off-the-shelf, and never-to-
be-man-rated Delta IV Heavy.

Which, of course, raises the question of why the test is even taking
place; apparently it will be 2020 before the SLS - Space Launch System
is ready.

However, a test launch in 2013 is needed if the capability of sending
humans into space aboard the MPCV is to be ready in 2016, as required
by legislation.

Ahem. How is a launch on a Delta IV Heavy going to hasten the
development of a completely unrelated booster? Only if this launch
were to contribute to uprating the Delta IV Heavy, so that it could
actually be used instead while we're waiting, would it accomplish
something.

It appears that NASA has been taken over by the pointy-haired manager
from Dilbert - I had been inclined to dismiss its critics, but this
information, partly from NASA's own site, and partly from a site that
doesn't seem to have a political ax to grind, appears to me to add up
to something that makes absolutely no sense.

And, while the mess may be partly the fault of Congress, it is not
NASA's job to pull the wool over Congress' eyes until the last minute
by hoping that no one there will notice that what they are doing is
spending money in a way totally irrelevant to achieving their mandated
objective.

John Savard

On Mar 3, 7:55*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:

So how is that in anyone else's way?

Well, it does cost the taxpayer money. As I've noted, though, I've
come across something disturbing that makes it look as if, even if
Orion is a very promising approach to a return to space, that the
forthcoming test appears to serve no purpose that could justify the
expense of a launch.

I could be misunderstanding what I read, or some of it could be out of
date, of course.

John Savard

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
bob haller wrote:

On Mar 3, 1:35 am, Quadibloc wrote:
This news item

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03...a-has-designed...

notes that at least a tentative approximate date has been set for a
test flight of Orion; thus, a craft that NASA could use to send humans
to the Moon, an asteroid, or even Mars _is_ slowly becoming a reality.

John Savard

Orion costs way too much, plus a capsule is great for transit to LEO,
but really not large enough to go far. Theres no money for orion
missions. This program is just a BIG pork piggie payoff to previous
shuttle contractors.

Our country can no longer afford pork.

Meanwhile space X delivers supplies to ISS for 10% of $$$ what a NASA
system would.

NASA needs to get out of the way and let private operators do things


Just how is NASA 'in the way', Bobbert?

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

The bobbert thinks that the private sector ONLY should have HSF now or in
the future. Such fantasies need to be knocked out of his ass-by a
two-by-four if necessary.

"Quadibloc" wrote in message
...
On Mar 3, 7:55 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:

So how is that in anyone else's way?

Well, it does cost the taxpayer money. As I've noted, though, I've
come across something disturbing that makes it look as if, even if
Orion is a very promising approach to a return to space, that the
forthcoming test appears to serve no purpose that could justify the
expense of a launch.

I could be misunderstanding what I read, or some of it could be out of
date, of course.

John Savard

EFT-1 is going to test fight avionics in a space environnment, and give the
heat shield a full-scale workout, with a reentry at 85% of the velocity of a
lunar mission's return. Once the test data is in, then Lockheed-Martin can
make any needed changes prior to EM-1, the first SLS flight in '17, which
will be the precursor to the EM-2, the initial human flight, Bobbert
fantasies notwithstanding.

Just this Sunday, Quadibloc explained that ...
I've done some more checking. From this page,

http://www.tallgeorge.com/mpcv.php

it appears that the test launch is going to be of the new Orion
capsule - now called the MPCV, as Orion, as such, is officially
cancelled - is going to be launched on an off-the-shelf, and never-to-
be-man-rated Delta IV Heavy.

Which, of course, raises the question of why the test is even taking
place; apparently it will be 2020 before the SLS - Space Launch System
is ready.

However, a test launch in 2013 is needed if the capability of sending
humans into space aboard the MPCV is to be ready in 2016, as required
by legislation.

Ahem. How is a launch on a Delta IV Heavy going to hasten the
development of a completely unrelated booster? Only if this launch
were to contribute to uprating the Delta IV Heavy, so that it could
actually be used instead while we're waiting, would it accomplish
something.

I wouldn't expect it to hasten the development of a completely
unrelated booster. Instead, it would be to validate concepts and
design details of the capsule itself, so that the capsule will be ready
when the booster is. Compare the Little Joe tests back in Project
Mercury days.

Is there a link somewhere to a NASA document describing the launch?

/dps

--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl

On Mar 4, 4:12*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Quadibloc wrote:
On Mar 3, 7:55*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:

So how is that in anyone else's way?

Well, it does cost the taxpayer money.

Yes, but that's not in the way of anyone else wanting to spend their
own money, which is what's being talked about. *Unless what Bobbert
really means by 'in the way' is it somehow prevents government going
to whoever Bobbert thinks it ought to be going to.

Again, for Bobbert, so how is that in anyone else's way?

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
*territory."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --G. Behn

Musk is developing a manned falcon to be ready in around 2 years, the
unmanned cargo flights are testing the falcon booster and operations
while resupplying ISS, it costs only 10% of a nasa version....

Now if ares / orion / or whatever its named these days were a pure
heavy lift I probably wouldnt care but its being sold as a manned
launcher too. . Instead its nasas latest pork project. To reward past
nasa contractors. Its cost per flight will be so high there will be no
money for missions, err jobs for it to do...

I dont know about the rest of you, but budgets are tight right now.

If your family is short on cash do you buy a brand new vehicle that
will only be used once a year for a family vacation?

or a slightly smaller daily driver say a minivan? certinally it cant
haul a tractor trailer load of stuff but it can get used daily. the
tractor trailer? not only is purchase price high but we cant even
afford the fuel

The shuttle was sold to have a high flight rate to make its costs
lower.

the last thing we need is another low flight rate vehicle

orion is just a boondgle wasting $$$ and nasa should of man rated the
delta heavy. cost a fraction of orion and the higher flight rate of
delta would of benefitted everyone

In article 1c6d14bd-a442-4214-91a3-d47af6d36143
@f6g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, says...

Orion costs way too much, plus a capsule is great for transit to LEO,
but really not large enough to go far. Theres no money for orion
missions. This program is just a BIG pork piggie payoff to previous
shuttle contractors.

Our country can no longer afford pork.

Meanwhile space X delivers supplies to ISS for 10% of $$$ what a NASA
system would.

NASA needs to get out of the way and let private operators do things

To be fair, an unmanned cargo Dragon isn't capable of performing beyond
LEO manned missions. And Dragon isn't perfect either. It's been a bit
cranky at times. We'll have to see if Orion's NASA pedigree makes it
less prone to trouble similar to what Dragon has had.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer