A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » History
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

LBJ and space travel



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old May 13th 08, 10:35 AM posted to sci.space.history
Monte Davis Monte Davis is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by SpaceBanter: Sep 2005
Posts: 466
Default LBJ and space travel

"Jorge R. Frank" quoted:

'...'It's too bad,' said LBJ. 'We have this
great capability, but instead of taking advantage of it, we'll
probably just **** it away.'"


Unfortunately, being President -- even a President who'd been riding
the politics/policy of space hard since 1957 -- didn't help him
appreciate the difference between a forced-growth, ultra-specialized
"capability" [to get astronauts to the Moon for a few days at ~$2
billion 1960s dollars per head] and a capability that would matter
(i.e., have the potential to grow on its own) once the space-race
fever wore off.

But hey, I'm not going to judge him too harshly for that. Far as I can
tell, many space fans are still unclear on that distinction.

Monte Davis
http://montedavis.livejournal.com/
  #12  
Old May 13th 08, 07:37 PM posted to sci.space.history
Eric Chomko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,853
Default LBJ and space travel

On May 12, 8:02*am, " wrote:
On May 12, 2:40 am, Pat Flannery wrote:

M wrote:
I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at
Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn
infrastructure that
"it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo
Program ended.


What else could you do with it?


That's not the point, here, and that changes the subject.

My direction is straightforward: what did LBJ (and his administration)
say that indicated a lack of interest in space travel?


It is not what he said but what he did. JFK made the commitment to the
moon and LBJ made the commitment to Vietnam. Clearly as Apollo peaked
and then subsided Vietnam was just still peaking before going away. We
have Nixon to thank for the latter.
  #13  
Old May 13th 08, 07:41 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Eric Chomko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,853
Default LBJ and space travel

On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:



M wrote:
I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at
Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn
infrastructure that
"it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo
Program ended.


What else could you do with it?
You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out
with the *ISS).


It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact
would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn.


You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not
be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get
to ISS?

And a simple answer of "yes" only adds to your inherent vagueness.
  #14  
Old May 13th 08, 07:56 PM posted to sci.space.history
Eric Chomko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,853
Default LBJ and space travel

On May 12, 1:27*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:

The question is: did I imagine that? *If I did not, can someone point
me to where I can find the exact context and quote?


This is also the guy who also said he "didn't want to go to sleep by the
light of a communist Moon".
Perfect politician.


Yep, how LBJ got Earl Warren to head the commission to look into the
death of JFK after Warren told him many times we would not do it and
then eventually caved and did lead the commission proves your point
about LBJ and his political prowess.

Or, as someone once said: "A politician is someone who will lie to
you...even when he doesn't have to."
(was that Mark Twain?)


I couldn't find it he
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Mark_Twain/

Eric
  #15  
Old May 13th 08, 08:24 PM posted to sci.space.history
Eric Chomko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,853
Default LBJ and space travel

On May 13, 5:35*am, Monte Davis wrote:
"Jorge R. Frank" quoted:

'...'It's too bad,' said LBJ. 'We have this
great capability, but instead of taking advantage of it, we'll
probably just **** it away.'"


Unfortunately, being President -- even a President who'd been riding
the politics/policy of space hard since 1957 -- didn't help him
appreciate the difference between a forced-growth, ultra-specialized
"capability" [to get astronauts to the Moon for a few days at ~$2
billion 1960s dollars per head] and a capability that would matter
(i.e., have the potential to grow on its own) once the space-race
fever wore off.

But hey, I'm not going to judge him too harshly for that. Far as I can
tell, many space fans are still unclear on that distinction.

Monte Davishttp://montedavis.livejournal.com/


I can't help to compare the aspect of running the Colorado River
through the Grand Canyon and that of spaceflight.

When John Wesley Powell ran the Colorado for the first time it was on
the govt. dime, specifically the USGS. Did anyone at that time bitch
about how Powell's trip could have or should have spawned the
commercial river running that started a good 50 years later and is
boom business these days??!?? Hell no!

Well, if NASA is the USGS of yesteryear and Neil Armstrong or maybe
more approriately Alan Sheppard, is the John Wesley Powell equivalent,
then I wonder if anyone said a thing about Powell's trip and how it
should have been commerical or that it had ANY influence on the
commercialization of river running which we actually have today but
took a good long time?

The point is that NASA and spaceflight has nothing to do with when and
how the commercial spaceflight industry will start. If anything look
at the space alliance and see how it charges its customers.

Eric
  #17  
Old May 13th 08, 10:26 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Rand Simberg[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,311
Default LBJ and space travel

On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:



M wrote:
I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at
Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn
infrastructure that
"it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo
Program ended.


What else could you do with it?
You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out
with the *ISS).


It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact
would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn.


You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not
be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get
to ISS?


We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. That's why the
Shuttle program was initiated.
  #18  
Old May 14th 08, 07:33 AM posted to sci.space.history
Dave Michelson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 512
Default LBJ and space travel

Eric Chomko wrote:

It is not what he said but what he did. JFK made the commitment to the
moon and LBJ made the commitment to Vietnam. Clearly as Apollo peaked
and then subsided Vietnam was just still peaking before going away. We
have Nixon to thank for the latter.


If you really want to understand how the political leadership that
supported the space program flourished then faded in that era, read "To
the End of the Solar System" by James Dewar. See the review at

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1107/1

As Dewar pointed out, had Sen. Anderson and his colleagues been younger
and in better health, things might have turned out differently as the
early 1970's evolved.

--
Dave Michelson




  #19  
Old May 14th 08, 03:24 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Ian Parker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,554
Default LBJ and space travel

On 13 May, 22:26, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:





On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


M wrote:
I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at
Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn
infrastructure that
"it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo
Program ended.


What else could you do with it?
You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out
with the *ISS).


It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact
would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn.


You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not
be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get
to ISS?


We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the
Shuttle program was initiated.


And which cost a lot more.


- Ian Parker
  #20  
Old May 14th 08, 08:20 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Eric Chomko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,853
Default LBJ and space travel

On May 13, 5:26*pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:





On May 12, 9:25*am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 01:40:47 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


M wrote:
I read in a book once that he commented to a space official at
Huntsville or Michoud after seeing all of the Apollo Saturn
infrastructure that
"it was too bad that all of this will be ****ed away" after the Apollo
Program ended.


What else could you do with it?
You could build a giant space station (pretty pointless, as we found out
with the *ISS).


It's only pointless if you can't afford to get to it. *Which in fact
would have been the case if we were constrained to Saturn.


You're speaking in riddles again. Do you mean to say that we would not
be able to afford Saturns today or that Saturns lack the means to get
to ISS?


We decided in 1967 that we couldn't afford Saturns. *That's why the
Shuttle program was initiated.


But as you and others have pointed out the shuttle being a RLV and the
Saturns being ELVs, have the former really saved us anything,
especially in terms of $$$? Had we continued with Saturns and not
necessarily Vs, could we have improved on the design to the point that
the ELVs, though seemingly more wasteful and certainly less enviro-
friendly, at least in theory, could they have been cheaper in the long
run?

Eric
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Space Travel James Colvier Policy 16 March 11th 08 08:23 AM
It Won't Be Space Travel G. L. Bradford Policy 10 September 8th 06 06:28 AM
take a look at the new way to travel into space jillh10 SETI 0 October 2nd 05 10:04 PM
space travel zelos Policy 7 October 26th 04 05:33 PM
Space Travel Brillo Pad History 0 January 10th 04 09:06 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.