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Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?



 
 
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  #131  
Old Yesterday, 03:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Posts: 1,168
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 06:11:40 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:
On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 4:11:07 AM UTC-6, Paul Schlyter

wrote:

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 12:58:25 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

So you say? Well, if so, point me to one single planet besides
the Earth known to have intelligent life. I'm waiting...

Point to one single piece of evidence that refutes intelligence

in
our galaxy.


Your failure to provide the evidence I asked for noted. And here

you
also used the flawed argument "since you cannot disproved me,

must
be right".


"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."


I presented probabilities that are almost certainty that

civilizations
exist in the universe billions of years older than ours, and you
(dishonestly) prattle about "evidence."


Exactly what do you mean with "the universe billions of years old er
than our universe"?

I object to your conclusion "almost certainly" when there are no
known positive cases. Yes, you exclude the Earth since it does not
reside in any universe billions of years older than our universe....


Intelligent life exists on at least one place in our galaxy: here

on
Earth. It may exist elsewhere too but we know nothing about that.


We DO have brains that can THINK. We deal with probabilities daily

much
less certain than the probability of advanced civilizations.


You should read Aristotle's writings about nature as an example of
how erroneous conclusions a brain that THINKS can produce in the
absence of evidence. Such thinking is mostly wishful thinking.


Your false claim was that all Christian deities live in

harmony,
without making any exceptopn for Satan.


Isn't Satan supposed to be a fallen angel? Are angels not

deities?

If Satan isn't a deity it must be a mortal biological creature.

If
so, Satan must be dead by now since it lived thousands of years

ago.


False dichotomy. Are angels "deities"? Were they created? Who

created
them? What about "spirits"?


All these are supernatural deities with supposedly supernatural
powers...
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  #132  
Old Yesterday, 03:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 9,811
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:30:06 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 08:07:01 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Do really everyone have to be an "evenist" or an "oddist"? If not,
why do everyone have to be a theist or an atheist? Why exclude the
alternative of refraining from choosing a belief here?


Because we don't choose beliefs.


OK, so our beliefs are somehow predetetmined then. But why would that
exclude the third alternative "not decided" or "none of the other
alternatives" or "no opinion"?


It doesn't. But it's extremely unlikely that an even marginally
informed, marginally reflective person would arrive at such a
position. Those are positions from ignorance, given the wealth of
evidence and information that is available.
  #133  
Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,251
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

A person can test whether they are free to be inspired and inspiring or under the constraints of a dour subculture.

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170319.html

A free person would find a planet with a zero degree inclination and a pivoting circle of illumination repulsive and say as much while those who support such a notion can't feel anything.




  #134  
Old Yesterday, 07:23 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Posts: 1,168
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 08:47:01 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:30:06 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 08:07:01 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Do really everyone have to be an "evenist" or an "oddist"? If

not,
why do everyone have to be a theist or an atheist? Why exclude

the
alternative of refraining from choosing a belief here?


Because we don't choose beliefs.


OK, so our beliefs are somehow predetetmined then. But why would

that
exclude the third alternative "not decided" or "none of the other
alternatives" or "no opinion"?


It doesn't. But it's extremely unlikely that an even marginally
informed, marginally reflective person would arrive at such a
position. Those are positions from ignorance, given the wealth of
evidence and information that is available.


You seem to believe that the decision of whether to be an atheist or
not is an intellectual decision. Mostly it isn't, it is much more an
emotiomal decision. t is easy for someone living a calm and secure
life to become an atheist. t is much harder for someone living a
restless and unsecure life, for instance soldiers in war. If the
soldier gets woundef in battle the probability of him becoming
religious rises further. And that does not make him semi-retarded,
people react that way. You too would do that.
  #135  
Old Yesterday, 08:51 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,251
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

I am Catholic by culture and upbringing but the transition to Christian was not an individual decision nor can it ever be -

"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or of human desire, but born of God." John

'Born of God' defies description because the mind is unable to fill the experience and so the journey begins to put the individual in relation to creation and especially through humanity productivity and creativity.

Despite the puffed-up nature of many here whether they call themselves atheists,agnostics, whatever - they are a product of decisions made by the Catholic Church as long as they maintain an empirical view of astronomy/terrestrial sciences. The Galileo affair specifically created the empirical subculture with all its hopeless chanting at the celestial arena so, until the Church recognises the technical and historical details which surrounded the emergence of a Sun centered system, the noise from empiricists will just grow louder.

Astronomy is safe but obscured by people who have no real feeling for the heritage we inherited from antiquity but thankfully that is now changing.



  #136  
Old Yesterday, 11:42 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 9,811
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 20:23:19 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 08:47:01 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:30:06 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 08:07:01 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Do really everyone have to be an "evenist" or an "oddist"? If

not,
why do everyone have to be a theist or an atheist? Why exclude

the
alternative of refraining from choosing a belief here?

Because we don't choose beliefs.

OK, so our beliefs are somehow predetetmined then. But why would

that
exclude the third alternative "not decided" or "none of the other
alternatives" or "no opinion"?


It doesn't. But it's extremely unlikely that an even marginally
informed, marginally reflective person would arrive at such a
position. Those are positions from ignorance, given the wealth of
evidence and information that is available.


You seem to believe that the decision of whether to be an atheist or
not is an intellectual decision. Mostly it isn't, it is much more an
emotiomal decision.


I'm not assuming it's an intellectual decision at all. It is an
intellectual decision to learn critical thinking and apply it, which
naturally leads one to become an atheist. But I make no supposition as
to the nature or quality of the evidence involved in reaching some
state of belief. It may be academic, it may be emotional, it may be
programmed childhood dogma. The point is, in our culture we are all
exposed to some combination of these, and that makes it extremely
unlikely that anybody can honestly have no opinion at all on the
question of the existence of gods.
  #137  
Old Today, 11:03 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,168
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:42:44 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 20:23:19 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 08:47:01 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 16:30:06 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 08:07:01 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Do really everyone have to be an "evenist" or an "oddist"?

If
not,
why do everyone have to be a theist or an atheist? Why

exclude
the
alternative of refraining from choosing a belief here?

Because we don't choose beliefs.

OK, so our beliefs are somehow predetetmined then. But why

would
that
exclude the third alternative "not decided" or "none of the

other
alternatives" or "no opinion"?


It doesn't. But it's extremely unlikely that an even marginally
informed, marginally reflective person would arrive at such a
position. Those are positions from ignorance, given the wealth of
evidence and information that is available.


You seem to believe that the decision of whether to be an atheist

or
not is an intellectual decision. Mostly it isn't, it is much more

an
emotiomal decision.


I'm not assuming it's an intellectual decision at all. It is an
intellectual decision to learn critical thinking and apply it, which
naturally leads one to become an atheist. But I make no supposition

as
to the nature or quality of the evidence involved in reaching some
state of belief. It may be academic, it may be emotional, it may be
programmed childhood dogma. The point is, in our culture we are all
exposed to some combination of these, and that makes it extremely
unlikely that anybody can honestly have no opinion at all on the
question of the existence of gods.


Why is it unlikely to have no opinion about something you've realized
is unknowable?

Compared to that bowl with sand and the question about whether the
number of grains of sand in that bowl is an even number or an odd
number. That too is, in practice, unknowable, and it would be quite
natural to have no opinion about that.

For those who have realized that the question about the existence or
nonexistence of deities also is unknowable it would be just as
natural to have no opinion about that question. After all, your
opinion about it would say something about you but not anything about
our universe.
 




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