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CEV Announcement



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 13th 05, 11:17 PM
Rand Simberg
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Default CEV Announcement

There's one expected this afternoon. My guess is that they'll wait
for the market to close.
  #2  
Old June 14th 05, 12:59 AM
Jim Kingdon
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There's one expected this afternoon.

I assume this is the one:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2005...ontractor.html

In a nutshell, they picked two contractors to compete for a
down-selection in 2006 (which is sooner than had been previously
planned). Moving up the down-selection has been widely reported for
some months now.

Is that what was expected or is there more?

  #3  
Old June 14th 05, 06:39 PM
Douglas Holmes
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"Jim Kingdon" wrote in message
news
There's one expected this afternoon.


I assume this is the one:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2005...ontractor.html

In a nutshell, they picked two contractors to compete for a
down-selection in 2006 (which is sooner than had been previously
planned). Moving up the down-selection has been widely reported for
some months now.

Is that what was expected or is there more?

The most interesting line for me was:

NASA's Vision for Space Exploration calls for the CEV to carry up to six
astronauts beyond low-Earth orbit soon after the Space Shuttle is retired in
2010, and then on to the moon as early as 2015.

When did the CEV become a SIX man vehicle?

Helps explain the size increase from 20 to 30 tons.

  #4  
Old June 15th 05, 07:03 PM
Mike Chan
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Douglas Holmes wrote:
"Jim Kingdon" wrote in message
news
There's one expected this afternoon.


I assume this is the one:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2005...ontractor.html

In a nutshell, they picked two contractors to compete for a
down-selection in 2006 (which is sooner than had been previously
planned). Moving up the down-selection has been widely reported for
some months now.

Is that what was expected or is there more?

The most interesting line for me was:

NASA's Vision for Space Exploration calls for the CEV to carry up to six
astronauts beyond low-Earth orbit soon after the Space Shuttle is retired in
2010, and then on to the moon as early as 2015.

When did the CEV become a SIX man vehicle?

Helps explain the size increase from 20 to 30 tons.


Seems like it had gone to crew size of 4 back when it would be good if
an EELV smaller than D-IVH can serve as the launcher. Now it seems it
has gone to 6 so that even a D-IVH can't serve as the launcher.

  #5  
Old June 15th 05, 07:04 PM
Neil Halelamien
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So... does anybody know what options, if any, t/Space has left
available to it?

  #6  
Old June 15th 05, 10:48 PM
Jim Kingdon
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So... does anybody know what options, if any, t/Space has left
available to it?


Well, I never took t/Space's main business to be the CEV. Maybe I'm
just not creative enough in my thinking, but I have trouble seeing the
whole system panning out - with a new/modified carrier aircraft (which
is likely to constrain the size of the CXV, as with other air launch
schemes), air launch with a crewed capsule (which I guess is actually
safer than ground launch, so maybe I'm wrong to see it as strange),
transferring in orbit (how?) from the CXV to the CEV (and the CEV gets
to orbit how?), etc.

(For the background see the CXV pages at
http://www.transformspace.com/index.cfm
).

The coolest thing they have done so far? Flying hardware for what was
supposed to be funding only sufficient for a study contract (see 14
Jun news on their web site about the drop test).

  #7  
Old June 15th 05, 10:53 PM
Jim Kingdon
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Seems like it had gone to crew size of 4 back when it would be good if
an EELV smaller than D-IVH can serve as the launcher. Now it seems it
has gone to 6 so that even a D-IVH can't serve as the launcher.


Am I the only one left with a sinking feeling?

Like the requirements churn is happening faster than anything is
actually getting designed or built? I mean, NASA has had some kind of
crew vehicle in some stage of development for, what, ten years now?
(see http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/photo/X-38/index.html ). Is
what's going on now any different, or any more likely to fly to/from
orbit?

  #8  
Old June 16th 05, 12:24 AM
Tom Cuddihy
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Douglas Holmes wrote:
"Jim Kingdon" wrote in message
news
There's one expected this afternoon.


I assume this is the one:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2005...ontractor.html

In a nutshell, they picked two contractors to compete for a
down-selection in 2006 (which is sooner than had been previously
planned). Moving up the down-selection has been widely reported for
some months now.

Is that what was expected or is there more?

The most interesting line for me was:

NASA's Vision for Space Exploration calls for the CEV to carry up to six
astronauts beyond low-Earth orbit soon after the Space Shuttle is retired in
2010, and then on to the moon as early as 2015.

When did the CEV become a SIX man vehicle?

Helps explain the size increase from 20 to 30 tons.


Looks like ATK knew what it was talking about after all.
When Scott Horowitz came to talk to us about the CEV concept, he was
saying that the astronaut office is saying the minimum size crew for a
long-duration mission (moon or mars) should be around 6 people.
Personally, I do think that makes a lot of sense. With 4 people, it's
tough to come up with a sustainable work/rest schedule.
I know there's a temptation to think the way people were managed in
Apollo and the way it's done on Shuttle and ISS is the way to
go--everything planned out to the minute, Ground controllers involved
in everything, etc. But the fact is that that is an efficient, but
psychologically exhausting way to run a mission.

Then add in the considerations of EVAs on the moon. NASA will always
use the buddy system. With two people gone from a 4 person crew, that
leaves the crew at half strength whenever field operations are taking
place, and means the whole rest of the crew has to go to a rescue if
something goes wrong. Having three groups of two is a lot more
efficient and redundant, and allows for more reasonable scheduling for
use of assets.
Military duty sections, especially on Naval ships, generally tend to
run at three sections for this exact reason.

cuddihy

  #9  
Old June 16th 05, 04:01 PM
kert
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So why exactly is launching six astronauts in one vehicle better than
launching three astronauts in two vehicles at the same time ? Since
when has putting all eggs in one basket, or launcher in this case,
become a wise practice ?

-kert

  #10  
Old June 16th 05, 05:26 PM
Tom Cuddihy
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kert wrote:
So why exactly is launching six astronauts in one vehicle better than
launching three astronauts in two vehicles at the same time ? Since
when has putting all eggs in one basket, or launcher in this case,
become a wise practice ?

-kert


Congress has made it pretty clear during the past two shuttle
explosions that loss of astronaut life is NOT acceptable. If one of the
two four person launches failed, ALL missions would be on hold.

Just think about it. If you launch two three person crews to orbit,
where they have to transfer to a 6-person lunar CEV, you need to have
launched 3 vehicles to LEO just to get the crew in a CEV. IF each of
the four person CXVs is 15 tons, and the lunar CEV is still 30 tons,
you still have to launch 60 tons to LEO to get the passengers into a 30
ton CEV. If, on the other hand, you launch one 30 ton CEV, it can be
launched from earth with all the passegers on board. Doesn't that make
a lot more sense?

cuddihy

 




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