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What's Waving?? Answer: Disturbed Quantum Vacuum



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 15th 05, 09:37 AM
nightbat
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Default What's Waving?? Answer: Disturbed Quantum Vacuum

nightbat wrote

FrediFizzx wrote:

"Martin Hogbin" wrote in message
...
|
| "Ray Tomes" wrote in message
...
| David wrote:
| Why do photons and matter have wave properties? What's
| waving? Why is sine waves and not square waves? Could
| time be shifting forward and backward producing the wave??
| If not. What do you think cause the wave part?
|
| Nick wrote:
| Wasn't it originally the Aether?
|
| It still is, but we aren't allowed to call it that any more. :-)
| Unless we want to be called crackpots (you just watch).
|
| But watch closely.
|
| The reason is that many physics textbooks wrongly conclude that
| relativity disproved the existence of an aether. It didn't, what
| it proved (according to Einstein) is that you cannot make a mark
| in the aether to see how it moves or to keep track of it.
|
| Correct. Physicists all agree that we have not disproved
| the existence of the aether, simply that we cannot determine its
| rest frame.
|
| In fact we cannot measure anything at all about the aether
| and the concept has proved neither useful nor interesting.

Not really true. The Standard Model itself is all about the "aether".
The term now-a-days is the quantum "vacuum". Volovik says it fairly
well in his book "The Universe in a Helium Droplet" page 461 sect. 33
Conclusion;

"According to the modern view the elementary particles (electrons,
neutrinos, quarks, etc.) are excitations of some more fundamental medium
called the quantum vacuum. This is the new ether of the 21st century.
The electromagnetic and gravitational fields, as well as the fields
transferring the weak and the strong interactions, all represent
different types of collective motion of the quantum vacuum."

IMHO, matter and space-time are made from the same stuff. Wheeler
thought so also with his quantum geometrodynamics. But he couldn't get
it to work out because he was trying to make particles from space-time.
I think it might be easier to make space-time from particles. But
either way, this can only work with the concept of dual space-time.
Which is really like a Dirac Sea concept. But Dirac's Sea didn't work
out either. Right approach but it definitely needs to be modified to
work. First, it has to be bounded from below by zero energy so that
only positive energy states are possible. Second, there are only
certain possible energy states allowed corresponding to known fermions
and maybe some other supporting resonances. IOW, there isn't an
infinite number of energy states. But the ones that are allowed are all
filled so that real fermions can't fall back to the equilibrium (decay).
The possible energy states are determined by the geometry of
interactions of particles in this modified Dirac Sea.

| One
| reason for this is that the things we make marks with are only
| themselves all just waves in the aether.
|
| Now you are right. You are a crackpot.

Maybe cranky but not really out of line with the Standard Model. If we
assume the quantum "vacuum" represents another space-time connected to
our space-time (modified Dirac Sea), then elementary fermions
necessarily ought to be made of the same "stuff" that makes the quantum
"vacuum". They just have a different geometrical configuration with
respect to how they would all be *bound* in the quantum vacuum. The
important space-time is the quantum "vacuum". In this dual space-time
scenario, we have fermions, virtual fermions, and "less than virtual"
fermions (the Dirac Sea). All elementary. In this picture, all
elementary bosons are instantaneously composites of virtual fermions.
Also then we have to change our thinking in that all these fermions can
have direct contact with each other. It has to be this way for total
unification.

| The idea that things are made of aether has no part in modern
| physics.
|
| "David" wrote:
| Electric and magnetic fields.
|
| I wrote that.
|
| Yes, they do, but the electric and magnetic fields are aspects
| of the aether in motion. The electric field is the local
acceleration
| and the magnetic field is the local rotation of the aether.
|
| Pure conjecture without experimental evidence or theoretical
| backup.

Not according to Maxwell is it pure conjecture.

| Light and matter has wave properties because they are waves.
| The particle properties of them are what requires more explanation.
| Matter has particle properties because it is a spherical standing
| wave and the centre has higher energy concentration and so looks
| a bit particle like. Light has a particle like property only
| during the moments of emission and absorption because it does
| these in discrete amounts due to matter rearrangements releasing
| or absorbing energy.
|
| The ravings of a crackpot.

Its a bit loose, but not all that cranky.

| Sine waves are the natural oscillations of any SHO (simple
| harmonic oascillator), and a SHO will exist whenever the return
| force is proportional to the displacement as it is in the aether.
|
| The wave part (according to Douglas Adams) is caused by God
| sneezing.
|
| That is fine for sci-fi comedy but not for real science.
|
| Martin Hogbin

If you haven't done so, you should read Volovik's "The Universe in a
Helium Droplet". From analogies with superfluid helium research, it is
shown that all physics can be emergent from the concept of the quantum
"vacuum" except for hbar. It remains fundamental.

FrediFizzx

http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/qu...uum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/qu...cuum_charge.ps


nightbat

Thanks Fredi for the info and links and I respectfully think
Officer oc will accept present day quantum vacuum for aether versus
absence of or void space.


the nightbat
  #2  
Old May 15th 05, 09:58 AM
Twittering One
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

.... O, yes, rain
Nourishs le fleurs ~ !

Hey, bat ~ !

  #3  
Old May 15th 05, 10:00 AM
Twittering One
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

~ * ~
_________________________________________
Just One of
The Morning Wood Sails Blown Blew ~
_________________________________________
~ * Trade Winds,
A Florentine Shoppe * ~

The Greatest Trivia Trove
Ever ...

Good
Stuff ...

And O
So much more ~ *
_________________________________________
Yes ~
A Morning Wood Mercurial Circumnavigation
_________________________________________
* Dogging Arts * Fogging Minds * It's a Star *
_________________________________________
*
~ * ~

Quacking, an elegant arriere ~ pensee
Insighted on the Iconic marble's
Arris ~

Arrivederci for now ~ ~

For further essential direction, just follow
The arrow ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

~ * 13 Arrondissement
For now ~ "
~ Chardonnay

*

  #4  
Old May 15th 05, 10:47 AM
nightbat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

nightbat wrote

Twittering One wrote:

... O, yes, rain
Nourishs le fleurs ~ !

Hey, bat ~ !


nightbat

Hello mysterious Twitty, and an humble night sweet dew early
morning fleur for you. I'm doing ok, and you? And who dares pretend to
be you on the net but can't come close? Who even uses net foul language
with your name but doesn't fool me? What poor impersonator tries to copy
your normal lovely manner but fails? Sugar is sugar, honey divine,
Twitty's true form and doodle rhyme sublime.


at your service,
the nightbat
  #5  
Old May 15th 05, 11:30 AM
Double-A
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


nightbat wrote:
nightbat wrote

FrediFizzx wrote:

"Martin Hogbin" wrote in message
...
|
| "Ray Tomes" wrote in message
...
| David wrote:
| Why do photons and matter have wave properties? What's
| waving? Why is sine waves and not square waves? Could
| time be shifting forward and backward producing the wave??
| If not. What do you think cause the wave part?
|
| Nick wrote:
| Wasn't it originally the Aether?
|
| It still is, but we aren't allowed to call it that any more.

:-)
| Unless we want to be called crackpots (you just watch).
|
| But watch closely.
|
| The reason is that many physics textbooks wrongly conclude that
| relativity disproved the existence of an aether. It didn't,

what
| it proved (according to Einstein) is that you cannot make a

mark
| in the aether to see how it moves or to keep track of it.
|
| Correct. Physicists all agree that we have not disproved
| the existence of the aether, simply that we cannot determine its
| rest frame.
|
| In fact we cannot measure anything at all about the aether
| and the concept has proved neither useful nor interesting.

Not really true. The Standard Model itself is all about the

"aether".
The term now-a-days is the quantum "vacuum". Volovik says it

fairly
well in his book "The Universe in a Helium Droplet" page 461 sect.

33
Conclusion;

"According to the modern view the elementary particles (electrons,
neutrinos, quarks, etc.) are excitations of some more fundamental

medium
called the quantum vacuum. This is the new ether of the 21st

century.
The electromagnetic and gravitational fields, as well as the fields
transferring the weak and the strong interactions, all represent
different types of collective motion of the quantum vacuum."

IMHO, matter and space-time are made from the same stuff. Wheeler
thought so also with his quantum geometrodynamics. But he couldn't

get
it to work out because he was trying to make particles from

space-time.
I think it might be easier to make space-time from particles. But
either way, this can only work with the concept of dual space-time.
Which is really like a Dirac Sea concept. But Dirac's Sea didn't

work
out either. Right approach but it definitely needs to be modified

to
work. First, it has to be bounded from below by zero energy so

that
only positive energy states are possible. Second, there are only
certain possible energy states allowed corresponding to known

fermions
and maybe some other supporting resonances. IOW, there isn't an
infinite number of energy states. But the ones that are allowed

are all
filled so that real fermions can't fall back to the equilibrium

(decay).
The possible energy states are determined by the geometry of
interactions of particles in this modified Dirac Sea.

| One
| reason for this is that the things we make marks with are only
| themselves all just waves in the aether.
|
| Now you are right. You are a crackpot.

Maybe cranky but not really out of line with the Standard Model.

If we
assume the quantum "vacuum" represents another space-time connected

to
our space-time (modified Dirac Sea), then elementary fermions
necessarily ought to be made of the same "stuff" that makes the

quantum
"vacuum". They just have a different geometrical configuration

with
respect to how they would all be *bound* in the quantum vacuum.

The
important space-time is the quantum "vacuum". In this dual

space-time
scenario, we have fermions, virtual fermions, and "less than

virtual"
fermions (the Dirac Sea). All elementary. In this picture, all
elementary bosons are instantaneously composites of virtual

fermions.
Also then we have to change our thinking in that all these fermions

can
have direct contact with each other. It has to be this way for

total
unification.

| The idea that things are made of aether has no part in modern
| physics.
|
| "David" wrote:
| Electric and magnetic fields.
|
| I wrote that.
|
| Yes, they do, but the electric and magnetic fields are aspects
| of the aether in motion. The electric field is the local
acceleration
| and the magnetic field is the local rotation of the aether.
|
| Pure conjecture without experimental evidence or theoretical
| backup.

Not according to Maxwell is it pure conjecture.

| Light and matter has wave properties because they are waves.
| The particle properties of them are what requires more

explanation.
| Matter has particle properties because it is a spherical

standing
| wave and the centre has higher energy concentration and so

looks
| a bit particle like. Light has a particle like property only
| during the moments of emission and absorption because it does
| these in discrete amounts due to matter rearrangements

releasing
| or absorbing energy.
|
| The ravings of a crackpot.

Its a bit loose, but not all that cranky.

| Sine waves are the natural oscillations of any SHO (simple
| harmonic oascillator), and a SHO will exist whenever the return
| force is proportional to the displacement as it is in the

aether.
|
| The wave part (according to Douglas Adams) is caused by God
| sneezing.
|
| That is fine for sci-fi comedy but not for real science.
|
| Martin Hogbin

If you haven't done so, you should read Volovik's "The Universe in

a
Helium Droplet". From analogies with superfluid helium research,

it is
shown that all physics can be emergent from the concept of the

quantum
"vacuum" except for hbar. It remains fundamental.

FrediFizzx

http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/qu...uum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/qu...cuum_charge.ps


nightbat

Thanks Fredi for the info and links and I respectfully think
Officer oc will accept present day quantum vacuum for aether versus
absence of or void space.


the nightbat



With the resurrection of the Cosmological Constant, the vacuum is said
to have negative pressure on curvature. So what's pressing?

Double-A

  #6  
Old May 15th 05, 11:48 AM
Double-A
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Twittering One wrote:
... O, yes, rain
Nourishs le fleurs ~ !

Hey, bat ~ !



Thunder storm here.

Lots of rain!

Double-A

  #7  
Old May 15th 05, 12:07 PM
Twittering One
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"With the resurrection
Of the Cosmological Constant,
The vacuum extracts, exacts negative pressure

On curvature.
So what's pressing?"
~ Double-A

"Exactly that ~ !
The demands of matter, exact form
From chaos. Well spring needs shoring,


For water drawn upward,
A primed pump, strong retaining walls,
Or else ~

All caves
To nothing, chaotic spill, form undone.

The demands of the world,
The demands of matter, matter, or else,
All's undone,

A life destroyed.

The vacuum's negative pressure
On curvature, what's pressing, you ask?

A support structure,
Buttresses flying for the Cathedral,
The body's rib cage,

A cage of light.

A cage, wrought iron, holds
A life, a twittering
Bird who sings,

But alas,
A tame bird needs care.

Well loved,
She alights upon your gentle hand.

Tweets sweet
Twitterings

Nibbles
Her seedlings."
~ Twittering

"Extracts,
Distilled form,
Exacts negative pressure

On curvature.
So what's pressing?
What's next?"
~ Double-A

"Bound form, perfectly,
Pressed between sheets, a body's manuscript,
A language written

On the body, a body's needs, a body
Knows.

So please ~
Don't forget to listen to my needs
Hear what I say,

For what I ask from you
To stay my hunger, stay my form
From constancy lost,

A meager cost.
But essentially, so simply,

Rightfully mine,

As for any,
And all.

No enduring companion,
No constancy
Universally constant if constantly
Undermined. An undertaker, if so,
Do I require.

If my form,
My Being, my Self, living in our temporal world,
Goes unfed, unsupported."
~ Twittering

  #8  
Old May 15th 05, 12:41 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What's with you guys don't you sleep at night? what's waving?
what's curving? what's spinning,What's vibrating? Lots of invisible
matter and energy that come to us out of the microscopic realm. you will
note I left out forces. So what is a force? Why do some particles
decay?. like the neutron Before decaying is the proton electron and
neutrino locked inside? My answer to that is "no" and that leads to
interesting thinking. EM force better understood than gravity force but
lots of unknowns. Only oc has Wolters answers to how gravity works and a
hint of its source. When we have the answers to all above. We will just
someday just go to Google. We live in the best of times because we have
lots to think about,and that keeps our brain waves waving. I like that
Bert

  #9  
Old May 15th 05, 12:48 PM
G=EMC^2 Glazier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Twitty Seems you have an evil twin out there. I can separate
you(sweet, kind,loving,and great poet) from this hateful imposter. Best
you keep in mind Twitty that we love and respect you. Bert

  #10  
Old May 15th 05, 01:11 PM
Twittering One
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Hi Twitty ~
Seems you have an evil twin
Uut there. I can separate you
(sweet, kind, loving, and great poet)
From this hateful imposter.


Best you keep in mind,
Twitty,
We love and respect you."
~ Bert

"Get real, Bert!
That's no evil imposter,
That's a healthy Twitering me saying ~

I hate!

And I hate myself
To hate.

But sometimes, alas,
Hate, we must to abolish evil,
What hurts, destroys, without nourishment.

At least I know I hate to hate,
So I told Capsicum, too.
So she knows I hate to hate, even if I hate.

If something's wrong
With me, her skill, her will, her responsibility,
To know ~

For, yes,
Capsicum, I trust."
~ Twittering

 




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