Huygens embargo--12 months

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:15:02 GMT, "David Nakamoto"
wrote:

By the way, I don't see why people are so worked up over a measly twelve
month embargo. After all, we have a much bigger problem with us for the
next four months, or 48 months ! ^_^

Dammit, Dave, I respect many of your opinions regarding our avocation,
but you crossed the line here. I have opposite views of our
"situation," but you'll never see me co-opting SAA for their
dissemination. Please find a more appropriate forum for your
political opinions.

Thanks.

Wayne Hoffman
33° 49" 17' N 117° 56" 41' W
"Don't Look Down"

http://users.adelphia.net/~w6wlr/

David Nakamoto wrote:
By the way, I don't see why people are so worked up over a measly twelve
month embargo. After all, we have a much bigger problem with us for the
next four months, or 48 months ! ^_^

And self-appointed Usenet Cop WayneH replied:
Dammit, Dave, I respect many of your opinions regarding our avocation,
but you crossed the line here. I have opposite views of our
"situation," but you'll never see me co-opting SAA for their
dissemination. Please find a more appropriate forum for your
political opinions.

Who gave you your warrant? Mr. Nakamoto must really have struck a
nerve, what?

Pretty cheeky of Nakamoto, referring to trillions in debt, the erosion
of civil liberties, and the squandering of hundreds of thousands of
lives in a fraudulent, no-win war as a "problem!" Mr. Nakamoto
obviously missed Dubya's recent declaration that he and his appointees
are not responsible for any mistakes, however egregious, past or
future, because the American people elected him and thereby ratified
everything he does.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Oh well. HJitler said he would rule 1000 years too! Get ready citizens of
world for an ........OUTPOURING ON THE INTERNET ....
it had already started the evening of..

The ESA willbe so busy handling rumors it will take five years at the
rate they don't move....




wrote:

Bummer. ESA is saying that they will release a "summary" of the data
but will embargo raw data (and I assume the detailed results?) for
twelve months.

From "The Scientist":

"The initial summary of the MS/GC data will be released sometime this
week, an ESA spokesperson told The Scientist. The raw data, however,
will endure the standard ESA 12-month embargo period."

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20050117/02

Seems a bit dissappointing if we are to wait a year for results in
order to allow the ESA scientists time to analyze the data without
competition...

--Darin

www.darinboville.com

I hope you then also understand the reluctance of the whole world to
accept it ....... and the rumor mill to release it ....... within two weeks!
It had already begun the evening of ...



David Nakamoto wrote:

Bummer, and a disappointment, perhaps, but very much a real part of space
science. One way to look at it - you're the principle scientist on one of
the instruments, and you've just spent ten to twenty years waiting for the
data to come in, ever since the pre-project stages of development. Now is
your chance to make the discoveries that will truly mark your career as a
scientist, and it's all in the data just collected. Are you going to
release the raw data, and allow someone else the chance to discover
something important ahead of you? Remember that the first to publish gets
the credit.

So I can understand their reluctance to release it.

--
Sincerely,
--- Dave
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It don't mean a thing
unless it has that certain "je ne sais quoi"
Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------

wrote in message
oups.com...
Bummer. ESA is saying that they will release a "summary" of the data
but will embargo raw data (and I assume the detailed results?) for
twelve months.

From "The Scientist":

"The initial summary of the MS/GC data will be released sometime this
week, an ESA spokesperson told The Scientist. The raw data, however,
will endure the standard ESA 12-month embargo period."

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20050117/02

Seems a bit dissappointing if we are to wait a year for results in
order to allow the ESA scientists time to analyze the data without
competition...

--Darin

www.darinboville.com

Thierry, the competition in the DNA field is so fierce nothing lasts
privately for more than six month any more. Whole companies start and fold
within two years now.




Thierry wrote:

"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
news:InVGd.5135$HT6.4847@trnddc04...
Bummer, and a disappointment, perhaps, but very much a real part of space
science. One way to look at it - you're the principle scientist on one of
the instruments, and you've just spent ten to twenty years waiting for the
data to come in, ever since the pre-project stages of development. Now is
your chance to make the discoveries that will truly mark your career as a
scientist, and it's all in the data just collected. Are you going to
release the raw data, and allow someone else the chance to discover
something important ahead of you? Remember that the first to publish gets
the credit.

So I can understand their reluctance to release it.


Yes and no. This not the first time that europ work this way.
Check weather pictures. NOAA and many other US or some in Europe too
(germany, spain, etc) release most images freely. Today Meteo France and
other smaller institutions, some public, ask a fee to get the same ones...
This is inacceptable !
This is not normal coming from a public company. A private OK, but not when
my money is invested in there through my taxes...

So why to wait for ? Afraid of the concurrence ? This is not it. Everybody
associated to an university involved in C-H mission can get these raw images
in prime time. The main job remains the interpretation behind. We can't do
it in some hours. Thus in all cases the credit will go to the one who comes
with the right interpretation.

I hope that science will not become a commercial affair... as it becomes
with DNA (HUMO and co.)

Thierry

--
Sincerely,
--- Dave
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It don't mean a thing
unless it has that certain "je ne sais quoi"
Duke Ellington
----------------------------------------------------------------------

wrote in message
oups.com...
Bummer. ESA is saying that they will release a "summary" of the data
but will embargo raw data (and I assume the detailed results?) for
twelve months.

From "The Scientist":

"The initial summary of the MS/GC data will be released sometime this
week, an ESA spokesperson told The Scientist. The raw data, however,
will endure the standard ESA 12-month embargo period."

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20050117/02

Seems a bit dissappointing if we are to wait a year for results in
order to allow the ESA scientists time to analyze the data without
competition...

--Darin

www.darinboville.com

wrote:
There will still be some pretty pictures for public consumption.

Nothing personal, but I must say that I find such patronizing comments
extrememly irritating. There are many of us who find the science
interesting, and many who find the "exploration" aspect interesting.
Some are interested in both aspects.

You misunderstand me. The raw data from the science package is not
amenable to casual inspection and may well challenge world experts to
give a good interpretation of what has actually been measured.

A sample graph of uncalibrated IR spectrum is actually online - probably
by mistake. But can you imagine any news outlet giving it air time?

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/...d/Picture8.jpg

(link may be volatile)
There will be reams of stuff like this from each of the GCMS, DISR,
DLIS, DLVS, DLV etc. and their UL cousins. None of it will make any
sense without detailed knowledge of techniques, the instruments and
their operational quirks and foibles.

From one point of view, the science experiemnets can be seen as the
lower priorty, piggyback baggage we have to put on these spacecraft to
get (trick?) people to dedicate their lives to our virtual exploration
program. Think about it.

The public almost never see any of the spectra that professional optical
telescopes obtain (yet that is where most of the science is done) - it
is no different with planetary probes. Pictures sell but complex graphs
and equations just make people change channel.

Regards,
Martin Brown

I DIDN'T vote for him. I don't support him at all.


--


SIAR
www.starlords.org
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord


"Davoud" wrote in message
...
Pretty cheeky of Nakamoto, referring to trillions in debt, the erosion
of civil liberties, and the squandering of hundreds of thousands of
lives in a fraudulent, no-win war as a "problem!" Mr. Nakamoto
obviously missed Dubya's recent declaration that he and his appointees
are not responsible for any mistakes, however egregious, past or
future, because the American people elected him and thereby ratified
everything he does.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Darin wrote:
Nothing personal, but I must say that I find such patronizing comments
extrememly irritating. There are many of us who find the science
interesting, and many who find the "exploration" aspect interesting.
Some are interested in both aspects.

My guess is that pretty pictures are easier to generate quickly than
scientific results.

Many of us are familiar, from school, with science experiments where
the data collection takes longer than the data reduction and analysis.
It can take the better part of the morning to a careful acid-base
titration (using ordinary school equipment), but you can extract just
about all there is to get from the data in a matter of minutes (even
by hand).

In many fields, however, upper-level experiments yield the raw data
rather faster than the raw data yields results. I don't know why this
seems to be true in so many fields; however, one possibility is that
at the limits of experimentation, many measurements are indirect, so
that it takes the correlation and corroboration of many observations
to be sure of a single scientific fact.

Then, too, limiting observations are fraught with errors. It can take
quite a while to apprehend which errors are random and can be managed
by statistical methods, and which ones are systemic and need to be
assumed directly into the model.

All in all, I don't think a year is so long to have to wait. I mean,
it took several years for the spacecraft to reach Saturn in the first
place; what's another twelve months after that?

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt