Self driving 18 wheelers

it was on 60 minutes tonight,they expect it to be in general use in 3 years. self drive isnt just for cars.

initially a driver will be on board. the news story this will make things safer..... so tired drivers is a big safety problem

In article ,
says...

it was on 60 minutes tonight,they expect it to be in general use in 3 years. self drive isnt just for cars.

60 Minutes is a pop TV news show. Considering the stories they've done
over the years, and how they've done them, I have little respect for
them. It is therefore with good reason I have little to no faith that
they have a clue when it comes to accurately reporting on science and
technology.

initially a driver will be on board. the news story this will make
things safer..... so tired drivers is a big safety problem

I'm guessing that whole "initially a driver will be on board" period
will be many, many years before we see truly autonomous (i.e. completely
driver-less) cars and trucks on the road. I'm always amazed at how fast
and accurately most truck drivers can back a trailer, in a crowded
parking lot no less, up to a dock with accuracy, precision, and speed.

Plus truck drivers are currently an integral part of loading and
unloading of some cargo. At work, I saw a driver load a "full size"
standard shipping container onto a flat bed trailer yesterday. To do
the same thing with robotics and computers would turn a relatively
inexpensive trailer with dumb hydraulics into a multi-million dollar
piece of hardware that couldn't possibly load a container as fast and
still maintain safety. And as they say in business, time is money.

In many situations today, a meat computer is still far better than
silicon. Meat computers can often handle the unexpected without crying
for help from other meat computers. Silicon computers almost always cry
for help, from the meat computers, when the unexpected happens. In
computer programming, we call those error conditions.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

This is the beginning of the transition to no one working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai8aCmvzbs

In article ,
says...

This is the beginning of the transition to no one working.

Bull****.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai8aCmvzbs

I hope you know that no one clicks on your b.s. YouTube links anymore.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 7:04:36 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

This is the beginning of the transition to no one working.

Bull****.

Its just a fact. Prior to 1850 90% of the people worked on the farms. After 1890 fewer than 5% did so. Prior to 1900 there were no motorcars to speak of. After 1940 there were no horses moving people or things to speak of. Recreational and ceremonial uses of horses continued of course.

Well before the technological singularity makes it possible to reproduce our personalities in machine form, ushering in the transhuman age, technology will be capable of displacing all work. This creates a transfactum era, which precedes the transhuman era. Humans will continue in ceremonial and recreational roles, but not in work.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai8aCmvzbs

I hope you know that no one clicks on your b.s. YouTube links anymore.

I think it interesting that you presume to know things that cannot be known.. Psychologists have a word for that! lol. Perhaps you should consult one. Be sure to tell them you're one of the owners of an important newsgroup! lol.



Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

Here's another link! lol.

https://m.facebook.com/officialmcafe...type=1&theater

These facts are related.

(1) The rise of the world wide police state, and
(2) the rise of total automation - transfactum era.

At present we are controlled by scarcity and programmed from an early age to work for our supper under conditions of scarcity. To a very large degree we are controlled by this situation and work very hard for others to overcome or improve our situation.

This is a control mechanism nothing more.

What happens to that control mechanism when work is superfluous? When there is no limit to the time or talent or creativity dedicated to meeting your needs or the needs of any other?

This is why the development and wide spread application of space travel in the 1960s and the closing year of the 20th century, was so important to achieve prior to transfactum and transhuman developments.

Writers like Asimov have attempted to answer these questions by portraying a world without work in their fiction. The three laws of robotics along with Saberhagen's warnings are long forgotten in the eager adoption of AI by the world's military establishments to build the perfect killing machine as they prepare for what they see as an inevitable die off. The problem is, the die off is their fault, and not inevitable at all.

Yet government cannot help be what it is, and what it is has always been a means of mind control for the many.

Anyone who knows their Latin can see this.

Government

Govern- control
mentalis - of the mind.

Government = Control of the mind.

As long as people learn to blame themselves or other innocents for the limitations they face, they are controllable. The principal mechanism of control are the jobs one attains in life. How we respond to that situation is largely determined by our early training as children. This of course is provided by government controlled education, which closes the loop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeEWPbTad_Q

So, what happens to this control mechanism when no one is needed to work? What happens to society? Those with capital who can claim ownership of the robots can function. What happens when the government responding to public pressure takes ownership away? or demands shared ownership?

We can see the beginnings of a break down crisis. A prudent government would prepare well in advance, by changing the paradigm most people operate in..

TO this end, a fabricated terror threat and a diminished sense of liberty and privacy, is a requirement as a means for government to continue to assert its claims

The common mode failures and inevitable back lash such moves provoke, will be the undoing I fear, of things. Which is too damn bad. It need not have been like this.

In article ,
says...

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 7:04:36 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

This is the beginning of the transition to no one working.

Bull****.

Its just a fact. Prior to 1850 90% of the people worked on the
farms. After 1890 fewer than 5% did so. Prior to 1900 there
were no motorcars to speak of. After 1940 there were no horses
moving people or things to speak of. Recreational and
ceremonial uses of horses continued of course.

Jobs shifted to cities and manufacturing. After all, you can't increase
farm productivity without farm equipment.

Well before the technological singularity makes it possible
to reproduce our personalities in machine form, ushering in
the transhuman age, technology will be capable of displacing
all work. This creates a transfactum era, which precedes
the transhuman era. Humans will continue in ceremonial
and recreational roles, but not in work.

Technological singularity? Reproducing our personalities in machine
form? This is sci.space.policy. You're way off topic. This crap, if
it ever happens, is so far off in the future, it's not worth talking
about, except as science fiction stories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai8aCmvzbs

I hope you know that no one clicks on your b.s. YouTube links anymore.

I think it interesting that you presume to know things that
cannot be known. Psychologists have a word for that! lol.
Perhaps you should consult one. Be sure to tell them you're
one of the owners of an important newsgroup! lol.

Fine, I don't click on your b.s. YouTube links anymore. Happy?

Here's another link! lol.

https://m.facebook.com/officialmcafe...type=1&theater

These facts are related.

(1) The rise of the world wide police state, and
(2) the rise of total automation - transfactum era.

At present we are controlled by scarcity and programmed from an early age to work for our supper under conditions of scarcity. To a very large degree we are controlled by this situation and work very hard for others to overcome or improve our situation.

This is a control mechanism nothing more.

What happens to that control mechanism when work is superfluous? When there is no limit to the time or talent or creativity dedicated to meeting your needs or the needs of any other?

This is why the development and wide spread application of space travel in the 1960s and the closing year of the 20th century, was so important to achieve prior to transfactum and transhuman developments.

Writers like Asimov have attempted to answer these questions by portraying a world without work in their fiction. The three laws of robotics along with Saberhagen's warnings are long forgotten in the eager adoption of AI by the world's military establishments to build the perfect killing machine as they prepare for what they see as an inevitable die off. The problem is, the die off is their fault, and not inevitable at all.

Yet government cannot help be what it is, and what it is has always been a means of mind control for the many.


Holy **** you *are* crazy. You're the one who needs professional
psychological help.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 9:20:01 PM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 7:04:36 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

This is the beginning of the transition to no one working.

Bull****.

Its just a fact. Prior to 1850 90% of the people worked on the
farms. After 1890 fewer than 5% did so. Prior to 1900 there
were no motorcars to speak of. After 1940 there were no horses
moving people or things to speak of. Recreational and
ceremonial uses of horses continued of course.

Jobs shifted to cities and manufacturing.

That avoids the point. There are 8766 hours in a year and people live to be 75 years old. That's 657,450 hours.

Today people work on average 1725 hours per year or 33 hours per week on average, from the ages of 20 to 65. That's 45 years and 77,625 hours over their lives.

In the past before McCormack invented the reaper and other innovations, people worked 72 hours per week for all their lives. People also consumed far less than they do today.

Despite these shifts, unemployment was massive. That's why Charles Dickens' character Scrooge went on about the 'surplus population' - it was a big deal at the time.

The point is it will be even a bigger deal going forward, as science perfects work by automating it out of existence.


After all, you can't increase
farm productivity without farm equipment.

Non sequitor and not even right or wrong in any sense we're discussing here.. You ignore important details - such as what does the equipment cost and how productive is it?

The fact remains that 90% of the population worked as hired hands on farms, and the 2% that farm today, are the same 2% that own the farms today. The 10% of the folks in the city are 1% that control the resources of society and the 9% that service them.

Farm automation ended slavery and created surplus population in the cities. Ford's approach to mass production employed that population by increasing the levels of consumption of the 97% as well as the 2% farm owners and 1% capital owners.

Displacing 97% of the workers with AI and robots creates a huge challenge sociologically.

Well before the technological singularity makes it possible
to reproduce our personalities in machine form, ushering in
the transhuman age, technology will be capable of displacing
all work. This creates a transfactum era, which precedes
the transhuman era. Humans will continue in ceremonial
and recreational roles, but not in work.

Technological singularity?

Yes, its a fact of technological growth well appreciated by any competent person, a fact like Moore's Law. lol.

Reproducing our personalities in machine
form?

Yes, people have discussed this for decades. Surprising you haven't heard of it.

Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.

Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as the ethics of developing and using such technologies. The most common thesis put forward is that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label posthuman.

The contemporary meaning of the term transhumanism was foreshadowed by one of the first professors of futurology, FM-2030, (born Fereidoun M. Esfandiary) who taught "new concepts of the human" at The New School in the 1960s, when he began to identify people who adopt technologies, lifestyles and worldviews "transitional" to posthumanity as "transhuman". This hypothesis lay the intellectual groundwork for the British philosopher Max More to begin articulating the principles of transhumanism as a futurist philosophy in 1990 and organizing in California an intelligentsia that has since grown into the worldwide transhumanist movement.

Of course you've heard nothing about this have you?

This is sci.space.policy.

Yes it is.

You're way off topic.

No I'm not. You are. The thread is about self-driving cars. This takes a measure of AI to work well. It will displace a huge swath of people leading to the same sorts of sociological difficulties that faced the USA and Europe when McCormack invented his reaper.

It also has specific application to becoming a space faring society. Using advanced AI, suspended animation, robotics, self replicating machines, and other elements of transhuman or posthuman nature, in combination with quite modest propulsion, we can see it possible that the skies will open to humanity to spread across the solar system.


This crap,

You produce a lot of that, not me, and not this topic.

if
it ever happens, is so far off in the future, it's not worth talking
about, except as science fiction stories.

You are such an arrogant ignorant asshole, you think you know so much and yet you know so little. Cyborg short for "cybernetic organism" with both organic and biomechatronic parts was a term first coined in 1960 by Manfred Clynes and Nathan S. Kline in a paper written for RAND about the future of space travel and how to most practicably develop off world capabilities for humanity.

D. S. Halacy's "Cyborg: Evolution of the Superman" was written in 1965. That book, not fiction at all, featured an introduction which spoke of a "new frontier" that was "not merely space, as discussed by Clynes and Kline, but more profoundly the relationship between 'inner space' to 'outer space' - a bridge...between mind and matter."

Cyborg technology will form a part of the future human evolution, and that evolution is happening today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai8aCmvzbs

I hope you know that no one clicks on your b.s. YouTube links anymore..

I think it interesting that you presume to know things that
cannot be known. Psychologists have a word for that! lol.
Perhaps you should consult one. Be sure to tell them you're
one of the owners of an important newsgroup! lol.

Fine, I don't click on your b.s. YouTube links anymore. Happy?

What would make me very happy is if you would ignore me and I could ignore you.

Even so, in another post you have clearly responded to such links.

Here's another link! lol.

https://m.facebook.com/officialmcafe...type=1&theater

These facts are related.

(1) The rise of the world wide police state, and
(2) the rise of total automation - transfactum era.

At present we are controlled by scarcity and programmed from an early age to work for our supper under conditions of scarcity. To a very large degree we are controlled by this situation and work very hard for others to overcome or improve our situation.

This is a control mechanism nothing more.

What happens to that control mechanism when work is superfluous? When there is no limit to the time or talent or creativity dedicated to meeting your needs or the needs of any other?

This is why the development and wide spread application of space travel in the 1960s and the closing year of the 20th century, was so important to achieve prior to transfactum and transhuman developments.

Writers like Asimov have attempted to answer these questions by portraying a world without work in their fiction. The three laws of robotics along with Saberhagen's warnings are long forgotten in the eager adoption of AI by the world's military establishments to build the perfect killing machine as they prepare for what they see as an inevitable die off. The problem is, the die off is their fault, and not inevitable at all.

Yet government cannot help be what it is, and what it is has always been a means of mind control for the many.


Holy **** you *are* crazy.

Not really. Though it is clear you are.

You're the one who needs professional
psychological help.

Nonsense. You are the one who believes bull**** is truth. You're with the problem. You're the one at risk.

People like me, not so much.

We're in a lot of trouble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFvT_qEZJf8

The World is a Business Mr. Beale.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKkRDMil0bw

Why Mr. Hunting didn't work for the CIA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8rQNdBmPek

George Carlin tells us about the American Dream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

Hopium...Our Only Hope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX25PDBb708

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 11:28:20 PM UTC-4, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 7:04:36 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

This is the beginning of the transition to no one working.

Bull****.

Its just a fact.


See above.


Well before the technological singularity makes it possible to reproduce our personalities in machine form, ushering in the transhuman age, technology will be capable of displacing all work. This creates a transfactum era, which precedes the transhuman era. Humans will continue in ceremonial and recreational roles, but not in work.


I had to leave the preceding, just as an example of the delusional
looniness that is Mookie.

Let's see, YOU believe the smartest,boldest, most forward looking people on the planet who control 99% of the resources of Earth due to their mastery of complex systems and advanced technology, don't give a thought to ANY of these issues I mention. Why? Because they didn't tell you they were thinking about it on the media they own. lol.

YOU are the one who is delusional. You are the one at risk.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai8aCmvzbs

I hope you know that no one clicks on your b.s. YouTube links anymore.

I think it interesting that you presume to know things that cannot be known. Psychologists have a word for that! lol. Perhaps you should consult one. Be sure to tell them you're one of the owners of an important newsgroup! lol.


I think you should follow your own advice.

I'm not telling you what other people I don't know are doing. You are teling me that. SO, clearly you are the one who needs the help of the folks in the white coats.

Be sure to show them your
posting history to this newsgroup.

Yet you are the one who is making claims about things they cannot know and claiming ownership of things they cannot possess.



Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

Here's another link! lol.


I think you're losing it! lol. lol.

Of course you do. That's another one of your problems.

MookLoony Munched

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

In article ,
says...

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 9:20:01 PM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 7:04:36 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

This is the beginning of the transition to no one working.

Bull****.

Its just a fact. Prior to 1850 90% of the people worked on the
farms. After 1890 fewer than 5% did so. Prior to 1900 there
were no motorcars to speak of. After 1940 there were no horses
moving people or things to speak of. Recreational and
ceremonial uses of horses continued of course.

Jobs shifted to cities and manufacturing.

That avoids the point. There are 8766 hours in a year and people live to be 75 years old. That's 657,450 hours.

Today people work on average 1725 hours per year or 33 hours per week on average, from the ages of 20 to 65. That's 45 years and 77,625 hours over their lives.

In the past before McCormack invented the reaper and other innovations, people worked 72 hours per week for all their lives. People also consumed far less than they do today.

Despite these shifts, unemployment was massive. That's why Charles Dickens' character Scrooge went on about the 'surplus population' - it was a big deal at the time.

The point is it will be even a bigger deal going forward, as science perfects work by automating it out of existence.

At my place of employment, 72 hours a week is not unheard of. 33 hours
per week would be considered part time where I work, and we have
precious few part time employees.

After all, you can't increase
farm productivity without farm equipment.

Non sequitor and not even right or wrong in any sense we're
discussing here. You ignore important details - such as
what does the equipment cost and how productive is it?

Modern farm equipment costs a ****-load of money because of the labor
put into it compared to the "good old days" when a single plow blade
could be made by a single blacksmith and then pulled by a small team of
oxen. Have you priced a new combine lately? Tractor? Planter? Plow?
Disc? Sprayer? No, I thought not.

For the price of one new combine, one could easily buy a brand new 4
bedroom house in the suburbs in a good school district in a neighborhood
with a clubhouse and swimming pool. And that's just *one* piece of
modern farm equipment, not the dozen or so pieces of expensive equipment
*needed* for a year's worth of farming.

These things are expensive because so many people have a hand in
designing and building them. All the way into outer space where GPS
satellites provide accurate position data to the computers in the
equipment. All the way to outer space where weather satellites help
predict the best times to plant and harvest. All these things with all
of their associated jobs are connected back to the farm and helps to
increase yields either directly or indirectly.

The fact remains that 90% of the population worked as hired
hands on farms, and the 2% that farm today, are the same 2%
that own the farms today. The 10% of the folks in the city
are 1% that control the resources of society and the 9% that
service them.

Only if you don't count the labor required to provide a farmer with the
equipment and materials needed for modern farming. Besides the
extremely high priced, high tech, farm equipment, farmers need diesel
fuel, seed, fertilizer, herbicide, insecticide, and etc. Note that all
of those materials are huge industries in their own right. Not to
mention downstream grain storage, transportation, food processing,
distribution, grocery stores, restaurants, and etc. which are all
involved in getting food from the farm to the table.

Look Mook, people don't buy all their food from the local farmer's
market anymore. Food is *still* big, big, business from start to end.
The jobs have shifted, but they've not completely gone away as you seem
to claim.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

http://singularityhub.com/2014/08/10...food-industry/