|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Methane chemistry at -200 Celsius
Liquid methane chemistry at -200 C.
------------------------- Do we know anything about it? What kind of compounds are formed at that temperature? After a machine made a splash somewhere, this looks like an interesting field of chemistry isn't it? Because couldn't a whole biochemistry be based in compounds solved in methane at -200? Since ambient energy is low, and solving solution has less thermic movement, extremely low energy gradients would become significant. Complex structures can be built with less energy and they are stable with less binding effort since thermal energy is low. Energy sources are present, since there were strong winds. There are rivers that flow, rocks, lakes. Everything an octave colder. The sun ionizes the haze with UV, making complex organic compounds at the surface of the atmosphere. This compounds rain down to cover the whole planet. An orange haze. Of food? This looks like a biosphere, an octave colder! The reactions there are completely new to us. Our knowledge of methane as solvent at that temperature and the possible form of this biochemistry can only be found with experiments using the compounds of the blue haze around the surface of Titan's atmosphere. That is probably the base of the food chain, that rains down into the whole planet. This could be a huge biosphere, comparable to ours, but an octave colder. I am sure this possibility will occupy the mind of humans as the next obvious step is prepared. We have to come back. To resume: In Mars, something is breathing (methane found). In Titan, something huge could have been found. Mars is at the limit of water as universal solvent. Titan shows us that methane based solvents are possible at low temperatures. Water using organisms are probably closer to us than methane ones. And there could be other solvents like sulfuric acid, using Phosphor-Sulfur biochemistry. Biochemistry could be possible in non-water based worlds. Biochemistry is the active organization of atoms by software. In our case, the software is encoded and stored in specially built atom-chains: DNA. Software could encode itself in strange compounds that exist at temperatures and conditions we have no idea about. Take a huge tank of sulfuric acid at 500 C. Mix in Phosphorous, together with many other materials. Energy can be extracted from the sun directly, and a lot of energy is necessry at high temperatures, to maintain the softare stable. Beings using sulfuric acid as solvent would need a lot of energy and their habitable zone is close to the star. Beings using water as solvent, have an habitable zone farther away from the star, but when the temperature drops beyond the -100 or so, they can't exist. The relay is taken by methane based beings. Ammoniac could be a good universal solvent at low temperatures too. The habitable zone of those beings is farther away from the star. It extends as far as the solvent remains liquid. When methane freezes they can't exist either. Who takes the relay there? Isolated planets in deep space would still be habitable by beings that thrive in the interior of the planet. The habitable zone of bacteria thriving from chemical reactions in a planet's interior is the whole universe. Including our own planet. Thomas Gold proposed that, but nobody knows. It is very difficult to go there. We know nothing of the biosphere just 10 Km below our feets. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Yes, and the neurological response time of such organisms would be ...
welll.......... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...... on the order of one synaptic response per .................... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................... welllllllllllllllllllllllllll. ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... century? At that rate such creatures will write one sentence per millenium! Their first book published about 50 billion years from now. abv jacob navia wrote: Liquid methane chemistry at -200 C. ------------------------- Do we know anything about it? What kind of compounds are formed at that temperature? After a machine made a splash somewhere, this looks like an interesting field of chemistry isn't it? Because couldn't a whole biochemistry be based in compounds solved in methane at -200? Since ambient energy is low, and solving solution has less thermic movement, extremely low energy gradients would become significant. Complex structures can be built with less energy and they are stable with less binding effort since thermal energy is low. Energy sources are present, since there were strong winds. There are rivers that flow, rocks, lakes. Everything an octave colder. The sun ionizes the haze with UV, making complex organic compounds at the surface of the atmosphere. This compounds rain down to cover the whole planet. An orange haze. Of food? This looks like a biosphere, an octave colder! The reactions there are completely new to us. Our knowledge of methane as solvent at that temperature and the possible form of this biochemistry can only be found with experiments using the compounds of the blue haze around the surface of Titan's atmosphere. That is probably the base of the food chain, that rains down into the whole planet. This could be a huge biosphere, comparable to ours, but an octave colder. I am sure this possibility will occupy the mind of humans as the next obvious step is prepared. We have to come back. To resume: In Mars, something is breathing (methane found). In Titan, something huge could have been found. Mars is at the limit of water as universal solvent. Titan shows us that methane based solvents are possible at low temperatures. Water using organisms are probably closer to us than methane ones. And there could be other solvents like sulfuric acid, using Phosphor-Sulfur biochemistry. Biochemistry could be possible in non-water based worlds. Biochemistry is the active organization of atoms by software. In our case, the software is encoded and stored in specially built atom-chains: DNA. Software could encode itself in strange compounds that exist at temperatures and conditions we have no idea about. Take a huge tank of sulfuric acid at 500 C. Mix in Phosphorous, together with many other materials. Energy can be extracted from the sun directly, and a lot of energy is necessry at high temperatures, to maintain the softare stable. Beings using sulfuric acid as solvent would need a lot of energy and their habitable zone is close to the star. Beings using water as solvent, have an habitable zone farther away from the star, but when the temperature drops beyond the -100 or so, they can't exist. The relay is taken by methane based beings. Ammoniac could be a good universal solvent at low temperatures too. The habitable zone of those beings is farther away from the star. It extends as far as the solvent remains liquid. When methane freezes they can't exist either. Who takes the relay there? Isolated planets in deep space would still be habitable by beings that thrive in the interior of the planet. The habitable zone of bacteria thriving from chemical reactions in a planet's interior is the whole universe. Including our own planet. Thomas Gold proposed that, but nobody knows. It is very difficult to go there. We know nothing of the biosphere just 10 Km below our feets. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
jacob navia wrote:
Liquid methane chemistry at -200 C. I think that if there is rain on Titan, it means that there is something hotter under surface to liquifie methane, like here the Sun liquifies water. Right? Ernesto |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Elivs Stik wrote: Yes, and the neurological response time of such organisms would be ... welll.......... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...... on the order of one synaptic response per .................... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................... welllllllllllllllllllllllllll. ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... century? At that rate such creatures will write one sentence per millenium! Their first book published about 50 billion years from now. You are assuming that the chemicals used for Titanian neurosystems would have to behave at Titanian temperatures like those for Terrestrial systems do. There is a problem for organisms to have too high a neurological reaction rate, and ours has adapted to our environment. I doubt that Titanian organic chemistry would be that similar to Terrestrial. It is possible that their biological systems may be functionally similar, but not use the same chemicals. -- This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
In "relative" terms, theirs would be slower ... molasses is as molasses
does. Herman Rubin wrote: In article , Elivs Stik wrote: Yes, and the neurological response time of such organisms would be ... welll.......... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...... on the order of one synaptic response per .................... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................... welllllllllllllllllllllllllll. ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... century? At that rate such creatures will write one sentence per millenium! Their first book published about 50 billion years from now. You are assuming that the chemicals used for Titanian neurosystems would have to behave at Titanian temperatures like those for Terrestrial systems do. There is a problem for organisms to have too high a neurological reaction rate, and ours has adapted to our environment. I doubt that Titanian organic chemistry would be that similar to Terrestrial. It is possible that their biological systems may be functionally similar, but not use the same chemicals. -- This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 01:48:53 GMT
(rnesto) wrote: I think that if there is rain on Titan, it means that there is something hotter under surface to liquifie methane, like here the Sun liquifies water. Methane is always either a liquid or a gas on Titan. Energy to evaporate it would come from the sun, just like here on Earth. -- Michael Smith Network Applications www.netapps.com.au | +61 (0) 416 062 898 Web Hosting | Internet Services |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Methane Found on Saturn Plays Crucial Role in Planet Formation | [email protected] | Astronomy Misc | 1 | December 29th 04 10:52 PM |
Researchers detect methane on Mars (Forwarded) | Andrew Yee | Astronomy Misc | 0 | October 28th 04 10:03 PM |
On Stranger Tides | Altruon Zardephax | Astronomy Misc | 1 | July 23rd 04 09:51 PM |
Martian Methane: Carbon compound hints at life | Sam Wormley | Amateur Astronomy | 8 | April 10th 04 08:56 AM |
Saturn Methane Image | Ron | Astronomy Misc | 0 | March 8th 04 11:00 PM |