Would the big bang nugget collapse itself?

I am rather young and inexperienced in the ways of physics and
astronomy, yet I am deeply intrigued by them nonetheless. My lack of
formal education in these subjects leaves me with many questions.
Forgive the naivety:

I was thinking about the Big Bang and what it was the instant before
it exploded. It is my understanding that is was a nugget-sized ball of
matter that was so massive it essentially contained the entire mass of
the universe. Wouldn't this nugget warp spacetime into a huge
singularity, one in which nothing could escape, namely the "big bang"
explosion itself? Could this nugget have existed in space for an
extended period of time, or did it compact and explode in a single
instant?

Luke Valens wrote:
I am rather young and inexperienced in the ways of physics and
astronomy, yet I am deeply intrigued by them nonetheless. My lack of
formal education in these subjects leaves me with many questions.
Forgive the naivety:

I was thinking about the Big Bang and what it was the instant before
it exploded. It is my understanding that is was a nugget-sized ball of
matter that was so massive it essentially contained the entire mass of
the universe. Wouldn't this nugget warp spacetime into a huge
singularity, one in which nothing could escape, namely the "big bang"
explosion itself? Could this nugget have existed in space for an
extended period of time, or did it compact and explode in a single
instant?

Read Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html

WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html

WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html

On 3 Oct 2004 16:19:26 -0700, (Luke Valens) wrote:

I am rather young and inexperienced in the ways of physics and
astronomy, yet I am deeply intrigued by them nonetheless. My lack of
formal education in these subjects leaves me with many questions.
Forgive the naivety:

I was thinking about the Big Bang and what it was the instant before
it exploded. It is my understanding that is was a nugget-sized ball of
matter that was so massive it essentially contained the entire mass of
the universe. Wouldn't this nugget warp spacetime into a huge
singularity, one in which nothing could escape, namely the "big bang"
explosion itself? Could this nugget have existed in space for an
extended period of time, or did it compact and explode in a single
instant?

The Big Bang created both space and time. It is probably meaningless to talk
about "before" the Big Bang, or about "space" containing some precursor to our
Universe.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message


The Big Bang created both space and time. It is probably meaningless to
talk
about "before" the Big Bang, or about "space" containing some precursor to
our
Universe.

What created the Big Bang?

Ed T.

The current classical theory says that space & time were created (at the
instant of) the 'big bang'...... and the knee bone is connected to the
thigh
bone, thereafter. Aint it polite?

From the perspective of the worm inside the B I G B A N G I E however,
it must have looked and seemed differently, perhaps not a bang at all but
a
slow methodical spoosh or gush, perhaps one of many such deliveries in
unquantifiable dimensions including imaginary time . But what the heck.

It wouldnt pay us much or matter if we knew because as mortals we could
do nothing with it or about it, anyway, given the fact that no biolgical
creature
(through the whole of biological history) will ever go anywhere that
matters
in this universe, anyway. The BIG BANG and the physics it created saw to
that!






Luke Valens wrote:

I am rather young and inexperienced in the ways of physics and
astronomy, yet I am deeply intrigued by them nonetheless. My lack of
formal education in these subjects leaves me with many questions.
Forgive the naivety:

I was thinking about the Big Bang and what it was the instant before
it exploded. It is my understanding that is was a nugget-sized ball of
matter that was so massive it essentially contained the entire mass of
the universe. Wouldn't this nugget warp spacetime into a huge
singularity, one in which nothing could escape, namely the "big bang"
explosion itself? Could this nugget have existed in space for an
extended period of time, or did it compact and explode in a single
instant?

(Luke Valens) wrote in message . com...

I was thinking about the Big Bang and what it was the instant before
it exploded. It is my understanding that is was a nugget-sized ball of
matter that was so massive it essentially contained the entire mass of
the universe. Wouldn't this nugget warp spacetime into a huge
singularity, one in which nothing could escape, namely the "big bang"
explosion itself? Could this nugget have existed in space for an
extended period of time, or did it compact and explode in a single
instant?

Because time was created with the advent of the BB, it is meaningless to
talk about what happend before the BB.

Because the dimensions of space were created in the BB it is meaningless
to talke about what the BB expands into.

The nugget-sized ball of everything that the universe was to become was
smaller than the proton inside a hydrogen atom. And the distortion of
space-time is so great that our physics is incapable of determining
what was going on until after 10**-43 seconds. In addition, we do not
have an accurate determination of what was going on until around 10**-35
seconds.

Could this nugget have existed bfor a long time before expanding rapidly?
perhaps, however, this is exceedingly unlikely.

This nugget did not contract before expanding. And the cartesian concept
of time (linear) did not exist prior to the expansion. It was not an
explosion!

Mitch

My understanding is that at the Big Bang, all the matter and energy
the universe would ever contain, is at a singularity. We may not know
what came before the BB, what caused the BB, or what the universe is
expanding into. I have always wondered though; there are black holes
in the universe today; yet, they have MUCH LESS mass (and energy) than
the universe. As I wrote earlier, the BB started as a point, with ALL
the mass and energy of universe. What would be the size of the event
horizon of all the universe's mass and energy, at that time? Why
isn't the universe just a singularity of a black hole? Once the Big
Bang started, even at +1.00E-100 sec, wouldn't the laws of physics
demand a black hole be formed? (Because all the energy and matter are
WITHIN the universe spacetime, in a very, very small volume.)

Francis


(Mitch Alsup) wrote in message . com...
(Luke Valens) wrote in message . com...

I was thinking about the Big Bang and what it was the instant before
it exploded. It is my understanding that is was a nugget-sized ball of
matter that was so massive it essentially contained the entire mass of
the universe. Wouldn't this nugget warp spacetime into a huge
singularity, one in which nothing could escape, namely the "big bang"
explosion itself? Could this nugget have existed in space for an
extended period of time, or did it compact and explode in a single
instant?

Because time was created with the advent of the BB, it is meaningless to
talk about what happend before the BB.

Because the dimensions of space were created in the BB it is meaningless
to talke about what the BB expands into.

The nugget-sized ball of everything that the universe was to become was
smaller than the proton inside a hydrogen atom. And the distortion of
space-time is so great that our physics is incapable of determining
what was going on until after 10**-43 seconds. In addition, we do not
have an accurate determination of what was going on until around 10**-35
seconds.

Could this nugget have existed bfor a long time before expanding rapidly?
perhaps, however, this is exceedingly unlikely.

This nugget did not contract before expanding. And the cartesian concept
of time (linear) did not exist prior to the expansion. It was not an
explosion!

Mitch

Edward wrote:
"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message


The Big Bang created both space and time. It is probably meaningless to
talk
about "before" the Big Bang, or about "space" containing some precursor to
our
Universe.


What created the Big Bang?

Ed T.



When a mommy Bang and a daddy Bang love each other very much...

--
Tom McDonald

Tom McDonald wrote:
Edward wrote:

"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message


The Big Bang created both space and time. It is probably meaningless
to talk
about "before" the Big Bang, or about "space" containing some
precursor to our
Universe.



What created the Big Bang?

Ed T.


When a mommy Bang and a daddy Bang love each other very much...


Ermm... Wouldn't that be a "Bang Bang"? You must be confusing them
with Mr and Mrs Big.

--Steve

(David E. Francis) wrote in message . com...
My understanding is that at the Big Bang, all the matter and energy
the universe would ever contain, is at a singularity.

This is the view when you extrapolate beyond (less time after BB than)
10**43 seconds. The classical view is that since everything seems to be
expanding from the same starting point, that that point much have contained
everything, and therefore must have been a singularity. However, our physics
does not provide solutions to questions posed at these kinds of space-time
curvatures.

Some modern attepts at solutions use imaginary time (orthogonal to real time)
and this does not actually lead to a sigularity. So, maybe Black Holes
would not 'necessarily' be formed.

It could also be that with space-time in the condition it was in, maybe
BHs don't actually form.

We may not know
what came before the BB, what caused the BB, or what the universe is
expanding into. I have always wondered though; there are black holes
in the universe today; yet, they have MUCH LESS mass (and energy) than
the universe.
As I wrote earlier, the BB started as a point, with ALL
the mass and energy of universe. What would be the size of the event
horizon of all the universe's mass and energy, at that time?

Our math of BH physics is critically dependent upon the BH existing
INSIDE space-time. If the BH was equal to the size of S-T the physics
might be significantly different.

Why
isn't the universe just a singularity of a black hole?

Because we wouldn't be here to ask these questions if it had taken place
in the manner you suggest!

Once the Big
Bang started, even at +1.00E-100 sec, wouldn't the laws of physics
demand a black hole be formed?

Our physics begins to break down at 10**-35 seconds and is only able
to penetrate to 10**-43 seconds (right now). The curvatures of space
and time are so great before this point in time that all sorts of
interesting physics could have been taking place that we cannot observe
or calculate (yet).

(Because all the energy and matter are
WITHIN the universe spacetime, in a very, very small volume.)

Francis