Accidental Orion?

(BllFs6) writes:

I used to have a link dirrectly to an article written by the scientist in
charge of the project...it was nice little article with facts from the guy that
WAS there....but alas I cant find it

http://gawain.membrane.com/hew/Usa/Tests/Brownlee.html

-paul-
--
Paul E. Black

Rusty Barton writes:

http://www.astronautix.com/chrono/19573.htm

"1957 Aug 10 -
Claimed first manmade object to escape from earth Nation: USA.
Payload: Steel Metal Cover.
In the summer of 1957 physicist Bob Brownlee attempted to 'contain'
the blast effects of an atomic explosion from a device placed at the
bottom of a 500 foot vertical shaft in the Nevada desert. A
four-inch-thick steel plate weighing 'several hundred pounds' is
placed over the hole (diameter not specified). This blew off as
expected in the blast and was seen in films to depart the area at six
times escape velocity . Brownlee never publicly challenged the
Soviet's claim (to having launched the 1st Earth satellite.
References: 92 ."

Of course he didn't challenge the claim. It didn't go into orbit...
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair

(Andrew Higgins) wrote in message . com...
(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
I recently read somewhere a story about one of the first underground
nuclear tests called Bernallilo in which the vertical shaft was capped
with a massive steel plug. After the shot which was intentionally
vented to the atmosphere, that the steel cap wasn't found.
Calculations indicated that its velocity far exceeded earth escape.
Apocryphal or plausible? A search on underground nuclear testing
reveals nothing?

Search under "Thunderwell" or, if you want less apocryphal accounts,
look for the "Pascal B" shot as part of "Operation PlumbBob".

Some more detailed pointers can be found in this article:

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2002/.../manhole.shtml

Hmmmm....6 times escape velocity is larger than the speed of most
meteors that earth encounters. I wonder if it could have escaped,
even as just a spurt of molten metal. It would probably radiate away
a considerable amount of thermal energy too so maybe didn't melt
completely. It is also going straight up unlike most meteors that
make "glancing" impacts in the atmosphere so would encounter less
atmosphere. BTW, the 6x escape velocity was a minimum speed they
calculated.

holog wrote:


Parallax wrote:

I recently read somewhere a story about one of the first underground
nuclear tests called Bernallilo in which the vertical shaft was capped
with a massive steel plug. After the shot which was intentionally
vented to the atmosphere, that the steel cap wasn't found.
Calculations indicated that its velocity far exceeded earth escape.
Apocryphal or plausible? A search on underground nuclear testing
reveals nothing?

gee wonder why?
\

some people want to keep secrets, national security.

Yeah, because terrorists building an orion and going and hovering over
the whitehouse is the number one national security threat...

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornfull tone, "It means
Just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -- Lewis Carrol

"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
[...] the steel cap wasn't found.
Calculations indicated that its velocity far exceeded earth escape.

Major long shot, but not beyond reason: the wave front of a nuclear
explosion leaves a relative (but far from total) vacuum in its wake.
Furthermore, the steel cap would have been traveling along with the shocked
gas. If the cap traveled through those conditions into the upper
atmosphere, some portion of it might have escaped incineration on exit.

Note that unless its velocity allowed solar escape, it would be almost
certain to intercept the earth again at some point in the future at meteoric
(if not cometary) velocity. Whether it could survive the return journey to
the earth's surface is very dubious indeed.

If its velocity permitted solar escape, it's probably further from the solar
system than any Pioneer or Voyager probe. Might be interesting to project
the cone of possible flight paths!


Jim McCauley

"Jim McCauley" wrote in message
news:dBzlb.1119$HS4.1498@attbi_s01...

"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
[...] the steel cap wasn't found.
Calculations indicated that its velocity far exceeded earth escape.

Major long shot, but not beyond reason: the wave front of a nuclear
explosion leaves a relative (but far from total) vacuum in its wake.
Furthermore, the steel cap would have been traveling along with the
shocked
gas. If the cap traveled through those conditions into the upper
atmosphere, some portion of it might have escaped incineration on exit.

Note that unless its velocity allowed solar escape, it would be almost
certain to intercept the earth again at some point in the future at
meteoric
(if not cometary) velocity. Whether it could survive the return journey
to
the earth's surface is very dubious indeed.

If its velocity permitted solar escape, it's probably further from the
solar
system than any Pioneer or Voyager probe. Might be interesting to project
the cone of possible flight paths!

..or to do it again - just for fun. ;-)

Cameron:-)

"Jim McCauley" writes:

"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
[...] the steel cap wasn't found.
Calculations indicated that its velocity far exceeded earth escape.

Major long shot, but not beyond reason: the wave front of a nuclear
explosion leaves a relative (but far from total) vacuum in its wake.
Furthermore, the steel cap would have been traveling along with the shocked
gas. If the cap traveled through those conditions into the upper
atmosphere, some portion of it might have escaped incineration on exit.

Bit of a chicken-and-egg problem he To have been in the "partial vacuum"
region, it must have been moving _SLOWER_ than the shockwave, which travels
at considerably less than escape velocity...


-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = \n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'

Parallax wrote:
(Andrew Higgins) wrote in message . com...
(Parallax) wrote in message . com...
I recently read somewhere a story about one of the first underground
nuclear tests called Bernallilo in which the vertical shaft was capped
with a massive steel plug. After the shot which was intentionally
vented to the atmosphere, that the steel cap wasn't found.
Calculations indicated that its velocity far exceeded earth escape.
Apocryphal or plausible? A search on underground nuclear testing
reveals nothing?

Search under "Thunderwell" or, if you want less apocryphal accounts,
look for the "Pascal B" shot as part of "Operation PlumbBob".

Some more detailed pointers can be found in this article:

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2002/.../manhole.shtml

Hmmmm....6 times escape velocity is larger than the speed of most
meteors that earth encounters. I wonder if it could have escaped,
even as just a spurt of molten metal. It would probably radiate away

Remember oxidation? Disk is not exactly a really good aerodynamic shape,
the changes of it having continued to travel in even approximately
vertical direction would depends on it being perfect circle - which is
highly unlikely. Hmm... actually, even if it was a perfect circle, I still
think its unlikely it would have stayed on-course.

a considerable amount of thermal energy too so maybe didn't melt
completely. It is also going straight up unlike most meteors that
make "glancing" impacts in the atmosphere so would encounter less
atmosphere. BTW, the 6x escape velocity was a minimum speed they
calculated.


--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Henry Spencer wrote:
Half-apocryphal. According to people who were there, the shaft (a
steel tube) was capped with a welded-on steel plate -- not terribly
massive -- as an "oh, what the hell" afterthought. A quick
back-of-the-envelope calculation suggested that its *initial*
velocity might exceed escape velocity. This was not verified in
detail, nor was any attempt made to determine whether the plate
would survive passage through the atmosphere. The plate was gone
after the test, but its exact fate was not determined. (One film
frame showed a blur that might have been the plate being blown off
-- not really enough data to deduce anything from.)

If that plate *is* in interplanetary space, how hard would it be to
find, someday?
--
Keith F. Lynch - - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.

This reminds me of a concept I read of in a SF short story. In it, Canada,
(why? I dunno, maybe because they were sandwiched between a warring US and
Russia and didn't want to get hurt in a nuclear crossfire?) makes a low-tech
but effective anti-ICBM system by drilling a slanting hole deep into a
mountain, putting a nuke at the bottom, and packing the hole with all manner of
metallic junk. When fired, it was to have worked like a gigantic shotgun,
spewing many many chunks into at least low orbit, to kinetcally kill incoming
warheads.

In the story it worked a little too well, and the debris cloud spreads and
builds from hitting more and more orbiting stuff until the Earth is swathed in
a layer of uuntrackable, unavoidable space debris that wipes all low-orbiting
objects from the sky and prevents launching new spacecraft for as long as it
take all the garbage to decay and burn up. Considering America presently
controls space and makes the most use of it for commercial and military
purposes, it makes for a fun "what-if" exercise to wonder how things would
change if the sky were suddenly denied... it would bring back high-altitude
aircraft, probably unmanned, for recon, imagine, but getting the aerial photos
or intercepts back would be slower than before. Communications might continue
using lan lines and perhaps fleets of relay aerostats, but these would be
easier for lower-tech nations to interfere with. it would seriously compromise
command and control capability at least in the short term. I wonder if the
Chinese or worse, the North Koreans are digging any long tunnels without
apparent purpose?