Paper - Brane Worlds, the Subanthropic Principle and the Undetectability Conjecture

Paper - Brane Worlds, the Subanthropic Principle and the
Undetectability Conjecture

http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0308078

discusses that we could be immersed in a large civilization without
being aware of it by stating that
'...we are not typical among the intelligent observers from the
Universe. Typical civilizations of typical galaxies would be hundreds
of thousands, or millions, of years more evolved than ours and,
consequently, typical intelligent observers would be orders of
magnitude more intelligent than us. The Undetectability Conjecture
states that, generically, all advanced civilizations camouflage their
planets for security reasons, so that no signal of civilization can be
detected by external observers, who would only obtain distorted data
for disuasion purposes. These conditions predict also a low
probability of success for the SETI project. We also argue that it is
brane worlds, and not inflation, what dramatically could aggravate the
`missing-alien' problem pointed out first by Enrico Fermi.'

Regards, Jason H. (I'm only the messenger.)

On 21 Sep 2003 00:27:32 -0700, (Jason H.) wrote:

Paper - Brane Worlds, the Subanthropic Principle and the
Undetectability Conjecture

http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0308078

I prefer the explanation that Earth civilization is ostracized from
the galactic community as a reaction to the game of cricket, which was
inspired by a racial memory of the Krikkit Wars. It's a more realistic
explanation than anything discussed in the above paper :P

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On 21 Sep 2003 00:27:32 -0700, (Jason H.) wrote:

Paper - Brane Worlds, the Subanthropic Principle and the
Undetectability Conjecture

http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0308078

I prefer the explanation that Earth civilization is ostracized from
the galactic community as a reaction to the game of cricket, which was
inspired by a racial memory of the Krikkit Wars. It's a more realistic
explanation than anything discussed in the above paper :P

--
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace

"Russell Wallace" wrote in
message ...
On 21 Sep 2003 00:27:32 -0700, (Jason
H.) wrote:

Paper - Brane Worlds, the Subanthropic Principle and the
Undetectability Conjecture

http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0308078

I prefer the explanation that Earth civilization is
ostracized from
the galactic community as a reaction to the game of
cricket, which was
inspired by a racial memory of the Krikkit Wars. It's a
more realistic
explanation than anything discussed in the above paper :P

I dunno, there's lots to be said for a general sort of
Undetectability Conjecture. Stuff that strains credulity
like the distant stars/universe just being a sort of movie
set are of course unlikely, but certainly if there were the
ole' putative galactic empire or federation or even just a
loose smaller collection of intelligent civilizations, they
might well adopt a policy of "hands off" any other
life-bearing planets which show future promise of
intelligent civs. Call it a galactic interdiction, boycott,
or the ole' Prime Directive of Trek, but it would amount to
the same thing, namely an explanation of the Fermi Paradox.
IMO, the most likely scenario along these lines would
involve a galactic zoo and/or preserve/protectorate type of
thing--i.e., galactic eco-freaks maintaining the integrity
and diversity of the universe sorta. It would not be too
much trouble to establish a reasonable -sized zone around.
say Earth, within which alien spacecraft would be
undetectable to us. Occasional stealth probes could evaluate
us as to tech capabilities and eligibility for the galactic
club. Note: I'm not saying this _is_ the answer to Fermi,
but it certainly is a plausible hypothesis.
....tonyC

--
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace

"Russell Wallace" wrote in
message ...
On 21 Sep 2003 00:27:32 -0700, (Jason
H.) wrote:

Paper - Brane Worlds, the Subanthropic Principle and the
Undetectability Conjecture

http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0308078

I prefer the explanation that Earth civilization is
ostracized from
the galactic community as a reaction to the game of
cricket, which was
inspired by a racial memory of the Krikkit Wars. It's a
more realistic
explanation than anything discussed in the above paper :P

I dunno, there's lots to be said for a general sort of
Undetectability Conjecture. Stuff that strains credulity
like the distant stars/universe just being a sort of movie
set are of course unlikely, but certainly if there were the
ole' putative galactic empire or federation or even just a
loose smaller collection of intelligent civilizations, they
might well adopt a policy of "hands off" any other
life-bearing planets which show future promise of
intelligent civs. Call it a galactic interdiction, boycott,
or the ole' Prime Directive of Trek, but it would amount to
the same thing, namely an explanation of the Fermi Paradox.
IMO, the most likely scenario along these lines would
involve a galactic zoo and/or preserve/protectorate type of
thing--i.e., galactic eco-freaks maintaining the integrity
and diversity of the universe sorta. It would not be too
much trouble to establish a reasonable -sized zone around.
say Earth, within which alien spacecraft would be
undetectable to us. Occasional stealth probes could evaluate
us as to tech capabilities and eligibility for the galactic
club. Note: I'm not saying this _is_ the answer to Fermi,
but it certainly is a plausible hypothesis.
....tonyC

--
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:10:19 GMT, "Anthony Cerrato"
wrote:

I dunno, there's lots to be said for a general sort of
Undetectability Conjecture. Stuff that strains credulity
like the distant stars/universe just being a sort of movie
set are of course unlikely, but certainly if there were the
ole' putative galactic empire or federation or even just a
loose smaller collection of intelligent civilizations, they
might well adopt a policy of "hands off" any other
life-bearing planets which show future promise of
intelligent civs.

It's possible they might, but for it to be the case that someone has
done that with us, they'd have to be simulating an entire untouched
universe out there. The easiest way to do that - in fact, the only way
I know of that's consistent with the laws of physics as we understand
them - is to put us in a Matrix-style virtual reality. Of course, one
cannot disprove the conjecture that this is indeed what's happening...
which is precisely the problem with this conjecture.

--
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:10:19 GMT, "Anthony Cerrato"
wrote:

I dunno, there's lots to be said for a general sort of
Undetectability Conjecture. Stuff that strains credulity
like the distant stars/universe just being a sort of movie
set are of course unlikely, but certainly if there were the
ole' putative galactic empire or federation or even just a
loose smaller collection of intelligent civilizations, they
might well adopt a policy of "hands off" any other
life-bearing planets which show future promise of
intelligent civs.

It's possible they might, but for it to be the case that someone has
done that with us, they'd have to be simulating an entire untouched
universe out there. The easiest way to do that - in fact, the only way
I know of that's consistent with the laws of physics as we understand
them - is to put us in a Matrix-style virtual reality. Of course, one
cannot disprove the conjecture that this is indeed what's happening...
which is precisely the problem with this conjecture.

--
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace

"Russell Wallace" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:10:19 GMT, "Anthony Cerrato"
wrote:

I dunno, there's lots to be said for a general sort of
Undetectability Conjecture. Stuff that strains credulity
like the distant stars/universe just being a sort of movie
set are of course unlikely, but certainly if there were the
ole' putative galactic empire or federation or even just a
loose smaller collection of intelligent civilizations, they
might well adopt a policy of "hands off" any other
life-bearing planets which show future promise of
intelligent civs.

It's possible they might, but for it to be the case that someone has
done that with us, they'd have to be simulating an entire untouched
universe out there. The easiest way to do that - in fact, the only way
I know of that's consistent with the laws of physics as we understand
them - is to put us in a Matrix-style virtual reality. Of course, one
cannot disprove the conjecture that this is indeed what's happening...
which is precisely the problem with this conjecture.


There is a web site that discusses the possibility that we are nothing more
than a computer simulation:

http://www.simulation-argument.com/

There are some that say the possibility is high that we are!

I worry though that someone might pull the plug at any moment :-)

What if they tired of the experiment (the simulation) and decided to start
over? Rats! :-)

But, a very ineteresting possibility ...
Al

"Russell Wallace" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:10:19 GMT, "Anthony Cerrato"
wrote:

I dunno, there's lots to be said for a general sort of
Undetectability Conjecture. Stuff that strains credulity
like the distant stars/universe just being a sort of movie
set are of course unlikely, but certainly if there were the
ole' putative galactic empire or federation or even just a
loose smaller collection of intelligent civilizations, they
might well adopt a policy of "hands off" any other
life-bearing planets which show future promise of
intelligent civs.

It's possible they might, but for it to be the case that someone has
done that with us, they'd have to be simulating an entire untouched
universe out there. The easiest way to do that - in fact, the only way
I know of that's consistent with the laws of physics as we understand
them - is to put us in a Matrix-style virtual reality. Of course, one
cannot disprove the conjecture that this is indeed what's happening...
which is precisely the problem with this conjecture.


There is a web site that discusses the possibility that we are nothing more
than a computer simulation:

http://www.simulation-argument.com/

There are some that say the possibility is high that we are!

I worry though that someone might pull the plug at any moment :-)

What if they tired of the experiment (the simulation) and decided to start
over? Rats! :-)

But, a very ineteresting possibility ...
Al

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:16:29 GMT, "Alfred A. Aburto Jr."
wrote:

There is a web site that discusses the possibility that we are nothing more
than a computer simulation:

http://www.simulation-argument.com/

*nods* I read that argument. Not really a scientific theory since
there's no way even in principle to falsify it, but an interesting
speculation nonetheless!

I worry though that someone might pull the plug at any moment :-)

What if they tired of the experiment (the simulation) and decided to start
over? Rats! :-)

It'd be nice if they gave us a say in what was going on if so.

*** End of simulation run ***
Would you like to Restart, Restore a save file, or Quit?

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To reply by email, remove
the small snack from address.
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