"Plumes of methane identified on Mars."

Plumes of methane identified on Mars.
Published online 21 October 2008 | 455, 1018 (2008) |
"Whether the methane plumes are biological or geological in origin is
impossible to know at the moment, says Atreya. For example, microbes
could be living in deep groundwater below a perma-frost zone, and
their waste methane could percolate up and leak out. The methane could
also come from chemical reactions in which buried volcanic rocks rich
in the mineral olivine interact with water. A third possibility is
that the methane is escaping from buried clathrates, deposits of
methane ice formed long ago by one of the other two mechanisms."
http://www.nature.com/news/2008/0810.../4551018a.html

This is a major big deal if confirmed. Especially interesting is that
high concentrations were found in the area Nili Fossae. A report
presented at the "Workshop on Martian Phyllosilicates: Recorders of
Aqueous Processes?" this month argues that carbonate best fits the
spectra in some deposits in the Nili Fossae region on Mars:

PHYLLOSILICATES, ZEOLITES, AND CARBONATE NEAR NILI FOSSAE, MARS:
EVIDENCE FOR DISTINCT ENVIRONMENTS OF AQUEOUS ALTERATION.
B.L. Ehlmann1, J.F. Mustard1, G.A. Swayze2, J.J. Wray3, O.S. Barnouin-
Jha4, J.L. Bishop5, D.J. Des Marais6, F. Poulet7, L.H. Roach1, R.E.
Milliken8, R.N. Clark2, S.L. Murchie4, and the MRO CRISM Team. 1Dept.
of Geological Sciences, Brown University, 2U.S. Geological Survey,
Denver, 3Cornell University, 4JHU-Applied Physics Laboratory 5SETI
Institute 6NASA Ames 7IAS, Universit¨¦ Paris-Sud, 8JPL-Caltech
).
Martian Phyllosilicates: Recorders of Aqueous Processes (2008).
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/aqu...8/pdf/7019.pdf

However, there are some discrepancies from a pure carbonate spectra
in the spectra from the deposits in Nili Fossae that prevents the
researchers from making a definitive identification. Because of this,
they offered some other possible explanations he

NEW SECONDARY MINERALS DETECTED BY MRO CRISM AND THEIR GEOLOGIC
SETTINGS: KAOLINITE, CHLORITE, ILLITE/MUSCOVITE, AND THE POSSIBILITY
OF SERPENTINE OR CARBONATE IN NILI FOSSAE.
B.L. Ehlmann1, J.F. Mustard1, J.L. Bishop2, G.A. Swayze3, S.M.
Pelkey1, R.N. Clark3, R.E. Milliken4, F. Poulet5, W.M. Calvin6, S.L.
Murchie7, L.H. Roach1, J.L. Griffes8 and the MRO CRISM Team. 1Dept. of
Geological Sciences, Brown University ), 2SETI
Institute 3U.S. Geological Survey, Denver 4JPL-Caltech 5IAS,
Universit¨¦ Paris-Sud 6Dept. of Geological Sciences and Engineering,
University of Nevada, Reno, 7JHU-Applied Physics Laboratory 8CEPS,
Smithsonian Institution.
Seventh International Conference on Mars.
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/7th...7/pdf/3270.pdf

Most notable in regard to the methane detection in Nili Fossae is that
one of the alternative explanations for the deposits is serpentine.
Interestingly, serpentine can arise from aqueous alteration of
olivine, and olivine was also seen in Nili Fossae in close proximity
to these deposits:

Serpentinite.
"In the presence of carbon dioxide, however, serpentinitization may
form either magnesite (MgCO3) or generate methane (CH4). It is thought
that some hydrocarbon gases may be produced by serpentinite reactions
within the oceanic crust, and the serpentinite reaction is a key
argument for the theory of abiogenic petroleum origin.

Reaction 2a:
Olivine + Water + Carbonic acid ¡ú Serpentine + Magnetite + Methane
(Fe,Mg)_2SiO_4 + nH_2O + CO_2 ¡ú Mg_3Si_2O_5(OH)_4 + Fe_3O_4 + CH_4

or, in balanced form: 18Mg2SiO4 + 6Fe2SiO4 + 26H2O + CO2 ¡ú
12Mg3Si2O5(OH)4 + 4Fe3O4 + CH4"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpentinite


If the methane is being produced continually in this area, this could
mean this process requiring liquid water is ongoing on Mars.


Bob Clark

"Robert Clark" wrote in message
...
Plumes of methane identified on Mars.


On Earth those are called "farts".

Robert Clark wrote:

Plumes of methane identified on Mars.
Published online 21 October 2008 | 455, 1018 (2008) |
"Whether the methane plumes are biological or geological in origin is
impossible to know at the moment,[snip crap]
Bob Clark

Hey ****ing stooopid - lunar regolith is 6 ppm methane, not 60 ppb
methane. Is the moon alive?

Nature 226 251 (1970)
Science 171(3970) 474 (1971)

idiot

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

On Oct 23, 12:18 pm, Uncle Al wrote:
Robert Clark wrote:

Plumes of methane identified on Mars.
Published online 21 October 2008 | 455, 1018 (2008) |
"Whether the methane plumes are biological or geological in origin is
impossible to know at the moment,[snip crap]
Bob Clark

Hey ****ing stooopid - lunar regolith is 6 ppm methane, not 60 ppb
methane. Is the moon alive?

Nature 226 251 (1970)
Science 171(3970) 474 (1971)

idiot

--
Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

Our Selene/moon is way more alive than is Mars, and at least our moon
has unlimited access to the 1.4 kw/m2 of sunlight, plus having loads
of local secondary/recoil IR to boot and perhaps more radioactive
material than anyone can appreciate.

Inside of Selene could be any number of interesting though low density
substances, although the crust and surface seems to be more than good
enough as is, with 260 ppm of h2o and otherwise loads of accessible
He3 to burn (so to speak).

~ BG

On Oct 23, 8:57 am, Robert Clark wrote:
Plumes of methane identified on Mars.
Published online 21 October 2008 | 455, 1018 (2008) |
"Whether the methane plumes are biological or geological in origin is
impossible to know at the moment, says Atreya. For example, microbes
could be living in deep groundwater below a perma-frost zone, and
their waste methane could percolate up and leak out. The methane could
also come from chemical reactions in which buried volcanic rocks rich
in the mineral olivine interact with water. A third possibility is
that the methane is escaping from buried clathrates, deposits of
methane ice formed long ago by one of the other two mechanisms."http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081021/full/4551018a.html

This is a major big deal if confirmed. Especially interesting is that
high concentrations were found in the area Nili Fossae. A report
presented at the "Workshop on Martian Phyllosilicates: Recorders of
Aqueous Processes?" this month argues that carbonate best fits the
spectra in some deposits in the Nili Fossae region on Mars:

PHYLLOSILICATES, ZEOLITES, AND CARBONATE NEAR NILI FOSSAE, MARS:
EVIDENCE FOR DISTINCT ENVIRONMENTS OF AQUEOUS ALTERATION.
B.L. Ehlmann1, J.F. Mustard1, G.A. Swayze2, J.J. Wray3, O.S. Barnouin-
Jha4, J.L. Bishop5, D.J. Des Marais6, F. Poulet7, L.H. Roach1, R.E.
Milliken8, R.N. Clark2, S.L. Murchie4, and the MRO CRISM Team. 1Dept.
of Geological Sciences, Brown University, 2U.S. Geological Survey,
Denver, 3Cornell University, 4JHU-Applied Physics Laboratory 5SETI
Institute 6NASA Ames 7IAS, Universit¨¦ Paris-Sud, 8JPL-Caltech
).
Martian Phyllosilicates: Recorders of Aqueous Processes (2008).http://www..lpi.usra.edu/meetings/aq...8/pdf/7019.pdf

However, there are some discrepancies from a pure carbonate spectra
in the spectra from the deposits in Nili Fossae that prevents the
researchers from making a definitive identification. Because of this,
they offered some other possible explanations he

NEW SECONDARY MINERALS DETECTED BY MRO CRISM AND THEIR GEOLOGIC
SETTINGS: KAOLINITE, CHLORITE, ILLITE/MUSCOVITE, AND THE POSSIBILITY
OF SERPENTINE OR CARBONATE IN NILI FOSSAE.
B.L. Ehlmann1, J.F. Mustard1, J.L. Bishop2, G.A. Swayze3, S.M.
Pelkey1, R.N. Clark3, R.E. Milliken4, F. Poulet5, W.M. Calvin6, S.L.
Murchie7, L.H. Roach1, J.L. Griffes8 and the MRO CRISM Team. 1Dept. of
Geological Sciences, Brown University ), 2SETI
Institute 3U.S. Geological Survey, Denver 4JPL-Caltech 5IAS,
Universit¨¦ Paris-Sud 6Dept. of Geological Sciences and Engineering,
University of Nevada, Reno, 7JHU-Applied Physics Laboratory 8CEPS,
Smithsonian Institution.
Seventh International Conference on Mars.http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/7th...7/pdf/3270.pdf

Most notable in regard to the methane detection in Nili Fossae is that
one of the alternative explanations for the deposits is serpentine.
Interestingly, serpentine can arise from aqueous alteration of
olivine, and olivine was also seen in Nili Fossae in close proximity
to these deposits:

Serpentinite.
"In the presence of carbon dioxide, however, serpentinitization may
form either magnesite (MgCO3) or generate methane (CH4). It is thought
that some hydrocarbon gases may be produced by serpentinite reactions
within the oceanic crust, and the serpentinite reaction is a key
argument for the theory of abiogenic petroleum origin.

Reaction 2a:
Olivine + Water + Carbonic acid ¡ú Serpentine + Magnetite + Methane
(Fe,Mg)_2SiO_4 + nH_2O + CO_2 ¡ú Mg_3Si_2O_5(OH)_4 + Fe_3O_4 + CH_4

or, in balanced form: 18Mg2SiO4 + 6Fe2SiO4 + 26H2O + CO2 ¡ú
12Mg3Si2O5(OH)4 + 4Fe3O4 + CH4"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpentinite

If the methane is being produced continually in this area, this could
mean this process requiring liquid water is ongoing on Mars.

Bob Clark

Without ever uncovering one part per billion in h2o within surface
processed samples, it seems rather unlikely there's any biological hot
spots of organic produced methane that's existing anywhere near the
surface.

Going deep into the mostly dry-ice frozen crust of Mars will be
extremely spendy and perhaps another decade time consuming. Is it
ever going to become worth all the tea in China? (I don't think so)

~ BG

On Oct 23, 8:57*am, Robert Clark wrote:
Plumes of methane identified on Mars.
Published online 21 October 2008 | 455, 1018 (2008) |
"Whether the methane plumes are biological or geological in origin is
impossible to know at the moment, says Atreya. For example, microbes
could be living in deep groundwater below a perma-frost zone, and
their waste methane could percolate up and leak out. The methane could
also come from chemical reactions in which buried volcanic rocks rich
in the mineral olivine interact with water. A third possibility is
that the methane is escaping from buried clathrates, deposits of
methane ice formed long ago by one of the other two mechanisms."http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081021/full/4551018a.html

The default state of carbon in the solar system is methane (CH4).
Only hydrogen, helium and water (H2O) exceed methane in abundance.
Methane to water ratio is 1:2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoch...e_Solar_System
Methane still survives in the outer planets because of their
distance from the Sun. If Titan were located in the
vicinity of Mars, solar radiation would convert water
into oxygen, which would burn methane into CO2.
Harmon Craig established that methane, released by
mid-ocean volcanoes, is abiogenic:
http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/Releases/?releaseID=550
Abiogenic methane or its combustion product CO2 is
characterized by an elevated content of carbon-13.
Nilli Fossae may be still releasing volcanic gases.
John Curtis

On Oct 24, 10:04*am, John Curtis wrote:
On Oct 23, 8:57*am, Robert Clark wrote: Plumes of methane identified on Mars.
Published online 21 October 2008 | 455, 1018 (2008) |
"Whether the methane plumes are biological or geological in origin is
impossible to know at the moment, says Atreya. For example, microbes
could be living in deep groundwater below a perma-frost zone, and
their waste methane could percolate up and leak out. The methane could
also come from chemical reactions in which buried volcanic rocks rich
in the mineral olivine interact with water. A third possibility is
that the methane is escaping from buried clathrates, deposits of
methane ice formed long ago by one of the other two mechanisms."http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081021/full/4551018a.html

The default state of carbon in the solar system is methane (CH4).
Only hydrogen, helium and water (H2O) exceed methane in abundance.
Methane to water ratio is 1:2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmochemical_Periodic_Table_of_the_Elem...
Methane still survives in the outer planets because of their
distance from the Sun. If Titan were located in the
vicinity of Mars, solar radiation would convert water
into oxygen, which would burn methane into CO2.
Harmon Craig established that methane, released by
mid-ocean volcanoes, is abiogenic:http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/Releases/?releaseID=550
Abiogenic methane or its combustion product CO2 is
characterized by an elevated content of carbon-13.
Nilli Fossae may be still releasing volcanic gases.
John Curtis

Good point about determining if the methane is biogenic or not from
the carbon-13 content. I don't think the current Mars orbiters or
telescopes from Earth have sufficient sensitivity to determine that
but it may be later orbiters or perhaps lander craft at these high
methane locations could be given instruments to determine this.

- Bob Clark

On Oct 24, 8:55 am, Robert Clark wrote:
On Oct 24, 10:04 am, John Curtis wrote:



On Oct 23, 8:57 am, Robert Clark wrote: Plumes of methane identified on Mars.
Published online 21 October 2008 | 455, 1018 (2008) |
"Whether the methane plumes are biological or geological in origin is
impossible to know at the moment, says Atreya. For example, microbes
could be living in deep groundwater below a perma-frost zone, and
their waste methane could percolate up and leak out. The methane could
also come from chemical reactions in which buried volcanic rocks rich
in the mineral olivine interact with water. A third possibility is
that the methane is escaping from buried clathrates, deposits of
methane ice formed long ago by one of the other two mechanisms."http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081021/full/4551018a.html

The default state of carbon in the solar system is methane (CH4).
Only hydrogen, helium and water (H2O) exceed methane in abundance.
Methane to water ratio is 1:2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmochemical_Periodic_Table_of_the_Elem...
Methane still survives in the outer planets because of their
distance from the Sun. If Titan were located in the
vicinity of Mars, solar radiation would convert water
into oxygen, which would burn methane into CO2.
Harmon Craig established that methane, released by
mid-ocean volcanoes, is abiogenic:http://scrippsnews.ucsd.edu/Releases/?releaseID=550
Abiogenic methane or its combustion product CO2 is
characterized by an elevated content of carbon-13.
Nilli Fossae may be still releasing volcanic gases.
John Curtis

Good point about determining if the methane is biogenic or not from
the carbon-13 content. I don't think the current Mars orbiters or
telescopes from Earth have sufficient sensitivity to determine that
but it may be later orbiters or perhaps lander craft at these high
methane locations could be given instruments to determine this.

- Bob Clark

The existing mass spectrometer that is on the surface of Mars and
supposedly functioning according to spec, has yet to register one part
per billion of h2o. It's not looking good on behalf of anything
biogenic taking place, unless it's somewhat rad-hard DNA is extra
special or beyond weird as to anything we've ever come across.

~ BG